UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

[Magical Realist]

Vallee was a charlatan. His advocates were low grade morons.

Sounds like an ad hom argument to me. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sounds like an ad hom argument to me. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

He's not worth my time going into the basement for the relevant books. And being a outrageous liar doesn't help him either.

 

[Magical Realist]

He's not worth my time going into the basement for the relevant books.

That's what I thought.

 

[sculptor]

sciforums spell-check seems not to be geared to science(anthropology).
Just a few minutes ago, it wanted to change denisovans to Slovenes.

I don't get why this was moved here.
Are Denisovans now considered space aliens(mystery solved?)?
Certainly not Slovenes?

..........................
[edit]
No,
wait.
I got it. (maybe?)
Sciforums spell-check seems to be evidence of extraterrestrial alien life forms?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That's what I thought.

You obviously have ignored the material already, so why do you want to ignore it again?

 

[Magical Realist]

MR:


The problem with this hypothesis is that skeptics, in general, don't do that.

In fact they do it all the time, priding themselves in being able to debunk anything. There's a whole community of skeptics out there who just somehow know in advance that an account of aliens is either made up or a case of mistaken identity. It's obvious they are not interested in the truth but only seek to protect some anti-ufo worldview.

The problem is that people don't like to think that they are capable of making mistakes, or acting stupidly. They get all embarrassed. So, it is understandable when people choose to ignore plausible alternative explanations of their experiences that they feel may result in embarrassment for them.

There is no problem with people coming forward and sticking to what they claim they saw. The problem comes in when you get armchair skeptics calling their observations in question because it conflicts with their belief that ufos can't and don't exist. That's why we get skeptics like you calling experiencers of ufo stupid or crazy, hence leading the public to suspect that there is no scientific objectivity on these matters whatsoever.

And, it goes without saying that the people who make these kinds of mistakes are often not well qualified to tell whether "science" is impotent.

Some people would rather just be told what they want to hear.

Everyone is qualified to know when they've seen something weird and out of the ordinary. It doesn't take a skeptic to reinterpret it into something known and familiar.

It is considered evidence. But time and again, on close examination the house of cards fails to stand up. The so-called "evidence" so often turns out to be misinterpreted, flawed, or simply faked.

Not at all. You have only to examine any of the hundreds of cases yourself to see there has been no mistake and that there is an active attempt by skeptics to falsify those accounts in defense of the status quo.

Apparent intereference. Reported interference.

Right. All cases of interference are reported cases of interference. So what?

Scopes have their own set of problems.

Not enough to account for cases of ufo detection confirmed by pilots.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/RadarCases.htm

Sure. Some things are unidentified. The problem is jumping from there to "It's an alien spaceship! Run for the hills!"

Right. A metallic disc landing in a field with diminutive humanoids exiting it is unidentified. It is also highly suggestive of extraterrestrial visitors.

When did this large metallic flying disc show up? Details, please! Where's the evidence for the rays, the speed, the disciness, the metallicity, the landing, the small beings, etc? Or is this just another anecdote?

I posted the link. Do you require more? There are hundreds of cases of disks landing in fields with beings walking around them. In the late 1950's France had a wave of such encounters. Then there was the infamous case in Zimbabwe in the 90's where 60 school children at recess saw alien beings exiting a landed saucer. How deep to wanna go into this rabbit hole?

But there are just so many other explanations. There's no lack of other explanations, in most cases. That's not the problem.

Really? So what's the other explanations for a silent disk landing in a field with beings exiting and walking around?

Why would they need to keep doing it, over and over and over again? And why all the sneaking around and hiding? Why not be open about what they want? Why abduct, when you could simply ask?

Maybe they're cloning humans. Who knows what an alien being is up to?

It's all idle speculation, since there are no convincing "alien abduction" stories, anyway. None that I'm aware of, anyway.

Really? You never heard of Travis Walton or the Kentucky abduction of two men?

Why has nobody studied them, then?

Scientists such as Hynek and Macdonald have studied ufo encounters for years. Harvard psychologist John Mack has studied alien abduction experiences. There is a long list of people who have studied these things. Do you want me to post it?

Let me know when and where the next alien spaceship is going to land, and I'll do my best to make sure somebody is there to study it.

You obviously never heard of Project Blue Book have you?

Most such evidence is of disputed origin, or else its identification is disputed.

You don't need to establish the origin or cause of a phenomenon to conclude it is real.

No. The evidence is flaky, just like all the other alien spaceship evidence.

Oh so you've studied all the case studies listed on this website?

http://www.ufoevidence.org/

More anecdotes.

Eyewitness accounts of people who were there...

Indeed. It doesn't have to be in a lab. But there must be agreement on what the facts are and how they are best to be interpreted.

How do you repeat a phenomenon in conditions that aren't controlled?

Also there's a lot of important steps between "something happened" and "An alien spaceship landed in my back yard and little green men took me for a ride."

Especially when what they actually saw was a metallic disc that landed with little men in silver suits walking around. Here's hundreds of those cases:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Landings.htm

There are certainly many hundreds of unreliable anecdotes. Nobody disputes that.

And you determined they are all "unreliable" when exactly?

 

[Bells]

Right..I approach evidence objectively and without an agenda of proving it is fake or mistaken.

What?!?

And no, I don't run from threads or debates at all. If anything I put so much effort in arguing my case that my generous contributions have to be snipped and turned into an whole new thread.

Ya, you trolled a thread and changed the topic and said thread had to be split..

Good job!

 

[river]

What?!?

Ya, you trolled a thread and changed the topic and said thread had to be split..

Good job!

MJ said

Magical Realist said: ↑

And no, I don't run from threads or debates at all. If anything I put so much effort in arguing my case that my generous contributions have to be snipped and turned into an whole new thread.

 

[Magical Realist]

Connected to this thread's topic are many first hand accounts of skeptics turned believers. Here's one who was converted one night when she saw a ufo hovering outside her window:

From Skeptic To Believer – My Encounter

• By Isabella Woods - 5 years 11 months ago

"UFOs, aliens and abductions are the stuff of fantasy. Or so I thought. Then I saw a UFO and my worldview changed overnight. I woke up. I didn’t mention the encounter to anyone, I didn’t phone the papers, or report it to a UFO hotline. But it occurred to me later that this is probably exactly how most UFOs encounters turn out. Unreported. Perhaps most people would prefer to lie back on their reclining sofa, turn the TV on and pretend it never happened.

My Encounter

It wasn’t very dramatic. No flashing lights, no black helicopters. Around 3am, unable to sleep, I got up and for some reason glanced out of the window. And there it was. Very high up, and just a ball of light. It wasn’t a star, and it certainly wasn’t a plane. It hung there, over the houses in the distance. I waited for it to move. I grabbed some binoculars, but could not make out any features. It was too far away, and I suddenly understood why all the UFO videos you see are so shaky. When something is that far away it’s just impossible to keep an optical instrument still and in focus. I watched for fifteen minutes. Then, quite suddenly, it shot up straight into the air, exactly like the recent Dome of the Rock UFO, in Jerusalem. I was astonished. I went to bed simply not knowing what to think. There was no great moment of revelation, no panic, my mind did not race. I just knew I’d seen a UFO. As ridiculous as that seemed, it was how I felt. Calm. And absolutely sure.

Looking For Answers

The next day began some serious research. I’d never believed in UFOs, but now I wanted to know more. Beginning with YouTube I watched the latest UFO posts avidly. I saw the Antonio Urzi footage, and was staggered. I watched the fascinating STS-75 Columbia tether incident, the Phoenix lights reports, Jamie Mussan’s latest analysis on the Dome of the Rock incident, the press conference by the Disclosure Project, and the historian Richard Dolan for Project Camelot. The last documentary I watched was a lecture by Linda Moulton-Howe on cattle mutilations. I could not believe what I was seeing. The question in my mind very quickly became not whether UFOs existed – they clearly did - but what they were.

What They Are Not

Those who theorize that these manifestations are ‘satanic’ I simply cannot believe. There is too much evidence for the physical existence of UFOs, and too many credible encounters with nuts and bolts vehicles. Physical traces, high Gieger Counter readings at landing sites, radiation burns on witnesses and scientifically analyzed animal mutilation cases all point towards a real physical phenomena. Listening to the many senior military witnesses who spoke at the famous Disclosure Project Press Conference convinced me that there is something happening which the US Government in particular are desperate to hide. Why just the US? After years of patient pressure by serious researchers the Mexican government have admitted UFOs exist, opened their files and freely admit they have no idea what is going on. Other governments have been more open too.

Conspiracy Theories

There are as many conspiracy theories surrounding UFOs as there are sightings it seems. As a newcomer to the field it’s frustrating to try and pick your way through them. Some I dismiss out of hand. I don’t believe Niburu is on its way. I just don’t. Just as comet Elenin turned out to be a damp squib, so will Niburu. Whilst I respect the views of others, it is one conspiracy theory too far. I do suspect there is wide disinformation being put out by security agencies, and again one must ask why. I was told early on to ignore anything from the European Union Times website, Sorcha Faal and most reports by Benjamin Fulford as probable disinformation, and I am minded to take that advice. However, The Disclosure Movement Press Conference, organized by Dr Steven Greer, changed the playing field in my view. Quite simply it has become impossible to discredit and/or silence every witness, many of whom are prepared to testify on oath. The only answer is to distract, ignore and resist.

Energy and Dollars

That the US is so unwilling to disclose any information suggests to me that they have something to hide, and it is most likely to concern money and energy. Like the impressive academic Richard Dolan, I believe it is partly government unwillingness to potentially destabilize world belief systems and financial structures that is behind resistance to disclosure. The issue of free energy (government suppression of the means to produce) makes perfect sense. Quite simply, I believe the power elite need money circulating through the oil industry. The military machine is another massive money-making concern, which needs to be kept happy. I do believe there is technology far in advance of that which we are aware of, in the hands of military scientists and engineers. I found Bob Lazar a compelling witness.

Earthly Explanations

Many craft, I am convinced, are of earthly origin, probably back-engineered. We know about Aurora, and I am convinced that there are other highly advanced machines in government hands. Whether the US government is testing public reaction to disclosure we can only speculate. But as 2012 approaches the number of sightings does seem to be rising. It would be a convenient time to disclose. As oil runs out the world elite need a new narrative, and it needs to be one they control. As Dolan suggests, once they disclose the existence of UFOs, the immediate question of why on earth they have kept the knowledge hidden for perhaps as long as sixty years is going to be pressing. If they’ve had free energy for that long they will have some seriously angry citizens to deal with.

Conclusion

My journey from skeptic to believer has been a fascinating one, full of conspiracy and rumour. I don’t know the answers, but I know more of the questions that I want to ask, and that cannot be a bad thing. The journey continues."---http://ufodigest.com/article/skeptic-believer-–-my-encounter

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody ever wonder if the government hires people to look silly on the Internet with the intent of making UFO buffs in general look like druggies?

 

[Magical Realist]

Anybody ever wonder if the government hires people to look silly on the Internet with the intent of making UFO buffs in general look like druggies?

Sounds like another loony conspiracy theory to me.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sounds like another loony conspiracy theory to me.

One with extensive experience in the field would be a person to consult, certainly.

 

[Magical Realist]

One with extensive experience in the field would be a person to consult, certainly.

And that wouldn't be you. Tks for confirming that.

The idea that the govt is hiring people to lie about having ufo encounters is not only unevidenced, but doesn't even make sense. That would only work against their agenda of covering up the events.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And that wouldn't be you. Tks for confirming that.

The idea that the govt is hiring people to lie about having ufo encounters is not only unevidenced, but doesn't even make sense. That would only work against their agenda of covering up the events.

And the idea of little green men running around on Earth does make sense. Got it.

 

[Magical Realist]

And the idea of little green men running around on Earth does make sense. Got it.

If it happens, it doesn't matter if it makes sense. Anymore than quantum physics makes sense. Does the Big Bang make sense? Not much. But it still happened. Because that's what the evidence supports.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If it happens, it doesn't matter if it makes sense. Anymore than quantum physics makes sense.

And it doesn't happen.

 

[Magical Realist]

And it doesn't happen.

Says the guy who never studies the hundreds of compelling individual ufo cases..

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Says the guy who never studies the hundreds of compelling individual ufo cases..

1. A recent head of MUFON quit because there was no compelling evidence that UFOs were, in deed, little green men.

2. I helped my wife research her thesis on UFO cults by reading UFO magazines until I was ready to puke. You don't know this, you don't know shit about me, you aren't qualified to say what I've studied.

 

[Magical Realist]

1. A recent head of MUFON quit because there was no compelling evidence that UFOs were, in deed, little green men.

2. I helped my wife research her thesis on UFO cults by reading UFO magazines until I was ready to puke. You don't know this, you don't know shit about me, you aren't qualified to say what I've studied.

Confirming you haven't studied any of the hundreds of compelling ufo cases that exist online. Tks..

Start here:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/Cases/CaseView.asp?section=MajorCase

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Confirming you haven't studied any of the hundreds of compelling ufo cases that exist online. Tks..

Start here:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/Cases/CaseView.asp?section=MajorCase

You are just blathering now. You still don't know what I've studied and what I haven't. I know you've only studied what pleases you. Confirmation bias. Look it up.