Were Adam and Eve the first people?

[Jan Ardena]

Tiassa

In this thread thread you alluded to the idea that I was mistaken to bring up the Quran as a source for the idea that Adam and Eve were not the first-ever, human beings.
If this is so, can you explain why?

Jan.

 

[sculptor]

From my Post 256
The garden of Eden story along with Adam & Eve is a myth with no relation to reality. It is contrary to well established notions of evolution.

There is a related set of fossils starting with early primates. One branch of this set of fossils led to modern Homo Sapiens. Other branches led to gorillas, baboons, chimps, & other modern primates.

Darwinian evolution provides a good explanation for these sets of fossils.

The Adam & Eve myth does not come close to providing an explanation.

Similar remarks can be made relating to the set of fossils starting with Eohippus & ending with the modern horse.

There are other sets of related fossils best explained by evolution.

From my Post 256So far, no Post has addressed my above remarks.

I do not think I missed a Post which addressed my remarks. did I?​

Does anyone posting to this Thread deny the existence of the fossils mentioned above?

Has anyone posting to this Thread provided an explanation which is better than evolution for those fossils?

OK here's a guess
The garden of Eden story harkens back to the dim hunter gatherer days.

 

[Write4U]

What just is?

Jan.

Privilege is......
Privelidged isn't......

 

[sideshowbob]

Remember, what you mean by "obvious reading" not so much ignores a literary record spanning millennia as despises it, and relies on an imposed definition that didn't even exist among people when the stories were told and recorded in writing.

So, to be clear, are you saying that the writers of the Bible didn't think birds were living?

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

OK here's a guess
The garden of Eden story harkens back to the dim hunter gatherer days.

Was Eden a place or a person?
Why was it called a garden as it seems the are no references to cultivating, it sounds more like a park.

Maybe it was really the "Garden of Adam" and someone made a spelling mistake when the oral myth was finally written down.
Was it fenced? Did God put the serpent there to keep down the mice or did it just sneak in...
Alex

 

[sculptor]

Was Eden a place or a person?
Why was it called a garden as it seems the are no references to cultivating, it sounds more like a park.

Maybe it was really the "Garden of Adam" and someone made a spelling mistake when the oral myth was finally written down.
Was it fenced? Did God put the serpent there to keep down the mice or did it just sneak in...
Alex

as/re the "book" much seems to be metaphor
So
Eden was the whole earth (at least the part the people of the "book" were familiar with)
The standard archaeological paradigm is/was that the hunter gatherers were much more communal/tribal.
And---so the paradigm goes their head deity was female.....
and they spent much less time getting what was needed for their sustenance.
and then
we have agriculture which is/was more labor intensive and a more solitary labor---
much was lost in the transition.
and that loss is reflected in the aforementioned story.

(justaguess)

 

[Write4U]

Was Eden a place or a person?
Why was it called a garden as it seems the are no references to cultivating, it sounds more like a park.

Maybe it was really the "Garden of Adam" and someone made a spelling mistake when the oral myth was finally written down.
Was it fenced? Did God put the serpent there to keep down the mice or did it just sneak in...
Alex

As I understand it, God created (planted even) the "garden" specifically for Adam, white picket fence and all, so that he could practise tilling the earth.

Garden of Eden - Created For Mankind

The Garden of Eden is described in Genesis, Chapters 2 and 3. The Lord created the Garden specifically for Adam, the first man, whom God had formed. In Genesis 2:8-9, we read: "The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food."

Some believe the Garden was atop a mountain, or perhaps it was an outlet for freshwater springs, because we read, "a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads" (Genesis 2:10).

https://www.allaboutgod.com/garden-of-eden.htm

Seems to me that this passage suggests that elsewhere on earth the conditions were less than ideal, if God had to specially create a garden and create fancy trees or natural springs.

Moreover, this must have happened before God made Eve, else he would have to place both in the garden, no? This thing gets very confusing......

 

[sculptor]

As I understand it, God created (planted even) the "garden" specifically for Adam, white picket fence and all, ....

How curious

 

[Write4U]

W4U said,
white picket fence and all, ....

How curious

Poetic liberty.....

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

-so the paradigm goes their head deity was female....

That makes sence.
I have worshipped a few females in my time☺
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

And creation...would it not make more sence to have male and female gods producing the universe...particularly if it is as it is linked to the notion of a cosmic egg...but then shouldnt the Gods be chooks (chickens).
Alex

 

[Write4U]

And creation...would it not make more sence to have male and female gods producing the universe...particularly if it is as it is linked to the notion of a cosmic egg...but then shouldnt the Gods be chooks (chickens).
Alex

Cosmic egg-----Plasma!
I just got a vision of a cosmic omelette.......

 

[Acitnoids]

I would love to comment on other posts here but they are steeped in ..... preconceptions. Textual criticism is how myths should be discussed not ideology. That's just my humble opinion.

Was Eden a place or a person?
Why was it called a garden as it seems the are no references to cultivating, it sounds more like a park.

Maybe it was really the "Garden of Adam" and someone made a spelling mistake when the oral myth was finally written down.
Was it fenced? Did God put the serpent there to keep down the mice or did it just sneak in...
Alex

There is no evidence for a Jewish State before the "exile". My personal hypothesis is that the garden in question here is a reference to the hanging gardens of Babylon. This was one of the ancient wonders and, in my opinion, inspiration for paradise.

Nothing in the Hebrew or Greek text can be dated before 6th century BCE. Job and Enoch being the only exceptions (10th century BCE at earliest, 3rd century BCE latest).

The garden here, in my opinion, is the garden that inspired the tranquility of God. The hanging gardens of Babylon.

The text itself says that Ezra "reproduced" the text of the Torah after the "exile" according to the oral tradition he was familiar with.

And Ezra the priest brought the Torah before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month” (Nehemiah 8:2)(Ezra 7-10)

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

This was one of the ancient wonders and, in my opinion, inspiration for paradise.

I read someplace the garden was run by the gods and this is where they kept the humans they had genetically manipulted ( so as to work for these gods) and that the word paradise met "the place the gods kept the animals" ...presumably the human workers.
I think that has its origin from a Summarian clay tablet.
All these myths are interesting indeed.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

There is no evidence for a Jewish State before the "exile".

True but it seems there was an acceptance of a common identity...and States were probably only city states outside of Eygpt and maybe Summaria ... interesting ... so where historically can we go back to...in your view.
I dont know specifics.
Alex

 

[Acitnoids]

I read someplace the garden was run by the gods and this is where they kept the humans they had genetically manipulted ( so as to work for these gods) and that the word paradise met "the place the gods kept the animals" ...presumably the human workers.
I think that has its origin from a Summarian clay tablet.
All these myths are interesting indeed.
Alex

heh ... sounds like an episode of 'Stargate SG-1" Inspiration indeed

 

[Acitnoids]

True but it seems there was an acceptance of a common identity...and States were probably only city states outside of Eygpt and maybe Summaria ... interesting ... so where historically can we go back to...in your view.
I dont know specifics.
Alex

There is no archeological evidence for a Jewish identity, tribal or otherwise, before 538 BCE. After Persian conquest of Mesopotamia.

There are a few mystic talisman found in the hebrew text dated before that but nothing to indicate a nation, state or tribe prior the the times stated. A cult at best.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

heh ... sounds like an episode of 'Stargate SG-1" Inspiration indeed

One of the Summarian poems ( assuming for a moment its not a con which I believe of everything really) talks about flying craft and other stuff that makes you wonder just how early scifi started.
Alex

 

[Acitnoids]

One of the Summarian poems ( assuming for a moment its not a con which I believe of everything really) talks about flying craft and other stuff that makes you wonder just how early scifi started.
Alex

Your assumption is warranted. Text was created for administrative purposes (inventory, payments due, payments payed). I like the idea that sci-fi was the next incarnation of the written word. The Oracle bones of the Shang dynasty (Ancient China) are a testament to both.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone

 

[Write4U]

The Garden of Eden that God built for Adam was the "hanging gardens of Babylon"?
Who built Babylon? God?

Babylon is the most famous city from ancient Mesopotamia whose ruins lie in modern-day Iraq 59 miles (94 kilometres) southwest of Baghdad.

Garden of Eden was in East Mesopotamia, not West.

Outside of the sinful reputation given it by the Bible, the city is known for its impressive walls and buildings, its reputation as a great seat of learning and culture, the formation of a code of law which pre-dates the Mosaic Law, and for the Hanging Gardens of Babylon which were man-made terraces of flora and fauna, watered by machinery, which were cited by Herodotus as one of the Seven Wonders of the World.

https://www.ancient.eu/babylon/

The Tower of Babel
The Tower of Babel is found in Genesis 11. In English it is easy enough to make the connection between “Babel” and “Babylon,” but in Hebrew it is the same word. This chapter cements Babylon’s reputation as a city of rebellion against God. From then on, the biblical writers consistently use Babylon as a symbol of evil and defiance (see 1 Peter 5:13 and Revelation 17:5).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Babylonian-empire.html

I find it peculiar that the further back you go in history, the more human endeavors are attributed to gods and the holier people seem to become. They could even talk with the gods and the gods could talk with them according to scripture.

This linguistic ability seems to have been lost altogether, on both sides.