What defines a religion?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

what makes a religion a religion?, does it have to consist of specific guidelines to be classed as a religion?. if a group of people believe the same thing and practice its teachings is that a religion?.

what seperates a religion from a group of like minded people who believe the same thing?, does a god or spiritual side have to be part of a religion?.


peace.

 

[lightgigantic]

at the core of religion is the notion of transcendence

 

[one_raven]

In my thread Working definition of religion a while back, I presented this definition:

Religion - A codified philosophical system that asserts a belief in the existence of at least one transcendental state or plane of existence beyond that which can be materially verified, and attempts to ascertain or teach the ideology that will assist the practitioner in transcending beyond this material existence to the other state(s) or plane(s).

How's that?

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

In my thread Working definition of religion a while back, I presented this definition:

Religion - A codified philosophical system that asserts a belief in the existence of at least one transcendental state or plane of existence beyond that which can be materially verified, and attempts to ascertain or teach the ideology that will assist the practitioner in transcending beyond this material existence to the other state(s) or plane(s).

How's that?

awesome

 

[shichimenshyo]

Good job sir

 

[lightgigantic]

In my thread Working definition of religion a while back, I presented this definition:

Religion - A codified philosophical system that asserts a belief in the existence of at least one transcendental state or plane of existence beyond that which can be materially verified, and attempts to ascertain or teach the ideology that will assist the practitioner in transcending beyond this material existence to the other state(s) or plane(s).

How's that?

sounds pretty good

the words "religion" and "yoga" can be linguistically be unpacked to mean "connection"

 

[Hapsburg]

To me, Religion is merely a concept indicating a high degree of devotion to a particular philosophy. Transcendence doesn't necessarily have to be a part of it. Simply a "religious" devotion (hint hint, wink wink) to one's philosophical views can suffice.

 

[one_raven]

Transcendence doesn't necessarily have to be a part of it. Simply a "religious" devotion (hint hint, wink wink) to one's philosophical views can suffice.

"Religious devotion" is a clever play on words specifically because a person is applying a level of devotion normally reserved for religion to something that is not religion.

When people say, "Football is my religion" do you take them literally?

 

[Hapsburg]

Only if they themselves take it literally.

 

[Enmos]

Can you believe in God without having a religion ?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

at the core of religion is the notion of transcendence

Is it subjective or a must for religion?

In my thread Working definition of religion a while back, I presented this definition:

Religion - A codified philosophical system that asserts a belief in the existence of at least one transcendental state or plane of existence beyond that which can be materially verified, and attempts to ascertain or teach the ideology that will assist the practitioner in transcending beyond this material existence to the other state(s) or plane(s).

How's that?

It is well written, but does transcendence and other plains of existence have to be included within a religion? take daoism for example, it does not directly state the ability to transcend to another dimension of reality. yet is said to be a religion. Is a following and explanation of nature of more importance in classification of religion?.

To me, Religion is merely a concept indicating a high degree of devotion to a particular philosophy. Transcendence doesn't necessarily have to be a part of it. Simply a "religious" devotion (hint hint, wink wink) to one's philosophical views can suffice.

this is what i was thinking also, the philosophical following and way of life is at the center of religion.

Can you believe in God without having a religion ?

you can 100% i know some people who dont follow religion but believe in an eternal god. a more fitting question would be this. can you have a religion that does not believe in gods?


peace.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Religion. A model of the universe based upon human hubris: the belief that of all the myriad solid objects and other collections of matter and energy in the universe, humans are qualitatively more important, and therefore have certain properties that transcend the natural laws that govern all the others, properties for whose existence no evidence has been discovered. Chief among these properties is the existence of a non-corporeal component or "soul" which can exist after all of the natural components of life have dissipated--and in some belief systems before they have been organized as well.

To summarize, religion is the belief that we are special, beyond the ways in which we have made ourselves special by transcending our nature, including adequately impressive achievements in their own right such as the creation of language, the establishment of civilization, and the discovery of science. This specialness can only be recognized by an outside observer, which is therefore postulated as a supernatural being not governed by natural laws.

 

[maxg]

It is well written, but does transcendence and other plains of existence have to be included within a religion? take daoism for example, it does not directly state the ability to transcend to another dimension of reality. yet is said to be a religion. Is a following and explanation of nature of more importance in classification of religion?.

Don't confuse philsophical Taosim (Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, etc.) with religous Taoism. The latter is animistic/polytheistic and involves belief in beings who exist on another plane of existence. As for transcendence, that applies to the philosophical school as well, as being "one with Tao" involves a spiritual transcendance the common state of being of people.

a more fitting question would be this. can you have a religion that does not believe in gods?

I would say yes. I think for some political ideologies become religions. For example communism, while it may not involve a transcendence of the physical world, does suggest that a eschatological transformation of the world or of human relations is possible through the following of certain teachings. Marx may claim that he derived the inevitability of the communist state from scientific principles but I don't see it. I think instead it becomes a matter of faith that such a change will occur.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Religion. A model of the universe based upon human hubris: the belief that of all the myriad solid objects and other collections of matter and energy in the universe, humans are qualitatively more important, and therefore have certain properties that transcend the natural laws that govern all the others, properties for whose existence no evidence has been discovered. Chief among these properties is the existence of a non-corporeal component or "soul" which can exist after all of the natural components of life have dissipated--and in some belief systems before they have been organized as well.

To summarize, religion is the belief that we are special, beyond the ways in which we have made ourselves special by transcending our nature, including adequately impressive achievements in their own right such as the creation of language, the establishment of civilization, and the discovery of science. This specialness can only be recognized by an outside observer, which is therefore postulated as a supernatural being not governed by natural laws.

in many sects of buddhism we are not counted as more important than other things. also in other eastern religions it is the same. we as we are now, are seen as pretty low in the pecking order of existence. having to work very hard to gain little importance in the realms of samsara.

is it fundemental for a religion to view humans as a cut above the rest?, i dont think it is.

peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Don't confuse philsophical Taosim (Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, etc.) with religous Taoism. The latter is animistic/polytheistic and involves belief in beings who exist on another plane of existence. As for transcendence, that applies to the philosophical school as well, as being "one with Tao" involves a spiritual transcendance the common state of being of people..

people base thier way of life around the philosophy of lao tzu, in turn get classed as a religious sect of daoism. to live dao is a complete way of life to many people who practice that way of existing. so would that be a religion in its own rights?, just following the philosophical teachings of tzu?.

I would say yes. I think for some political ideologies become religions. For example communism, while it may not involve a transcendence of the physical world, does suggest that a eschatological transformation of the world or of human relations is possible through the following of certain teachings. Marx may claim that he derived the inevitability of the communist state from scientific principles but I don't see it. I think instead it becomes a matter of faith that such a change will occur

that is another interesting point you made me think of, does a religion have to include faith based assertions? do you have to believe in something based on faith? many religions require it, but back to daoism again would this require faith given your point of logic?. i would say no, daoism does not require faith to live by its teachings. the empty force that is dao is logical thinking not faith based.

peace.

 

[Enmos]

you can 100% i know some people who dont follow religion but believe in an eternal god.

But wouldn't there be other beliefs attached to a belief in God ?
If one has belief in a God but has no beliefs about a God, then what is the point of believing ? Or even worse, what would be the point of God ?

a more fitting question would be this. can you have a religion that does not believe in gods?

I think one can have a religion without believing in a God. Religion is a set of believes that do not necessarily include believe about or in any God (in my opinion).

 

[maxg]

people base thier way of life around the philosophy of lao tzu, in turn get classed as a religious sect of daoism. to live dao is a complete way of life to many people who practice that way of existing. so would that be a religion in its own rights?, just following the philosophical teachings of tzu?.

I guess that depends on how you conceive of the Tao. It is presented as something that preceeded material existence and as such is beyond material verification. It also presents a set of tenets (albeit somewhat vague ones at times) that give a guide for how one should live in order to be at one with the Tao (and that sounds a lot like transcending the state of mundane being).

that is another interesting point you made me think of, does a religion have to include faith based assertions? do you have to believe in something based on faith? many religions require it, but back to daoism again would this require faith given your point of logic?. i would say no, daoism does not require faith to live by its teachings. the empty force that is dao is logical thinking not faith based.
peace.

Well to accept that the Tao exists is an assumption that needs to be based on faith. Lao Tzu is pretty clear that you can't see it, hear it, or touch it. I guess a lot depends on how one interprets those teachings, but certainly for some people it is a religion.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I guess that depends on how you conceive of the Tao. It is presented as something that preceeded material existence and as such is beyond material verification. It also presents a set of tenets (albeit somewhat vague ones at times) that give a guide for how one should live in order to be at one with the Tao (and that sounds a lot like transcending the state of mundane being)..

it trancends the state of the regular joe ofcourse, but does not transcend into another realm of existence outside of this dimension like say samsara or heaven.

Well to accept that the Tao exists is an assumption that needs to be based on faith. Lao Tzu is pretty clear that you can't see it, hear it, or touch it. I guess a lot depends on how one interprets those teachings, but certainly for some people it is a religion

no, it is true that dao exists, the proof is infront of your face right now. it is an empty framework which allows physical energy/matter to exist. take 1 cubic meter of space infront of you, what is that space?. true it holds millions of particles and various other forms of micro sized matter/energy. but what are those particles and energy floating around in?. it is a dimension of empty space that we cannot detect or sense. if you for instance, take away all of the particles and energy out of the cubic meter infront of you, what are you left with? empty space.

this empty space/force/frame is dao. it is not faith based, it is based on logic.


peace.

 

[lightgigantic]

EmptyForceOfChi
“

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
at the core of religion is the notion of transcendence
”
Is it subjective or a must for religion?

if there is no notion of transcendence, what would distinguish it from ordinary mundane affairs?

 

[lightgigantic]

Fraggle

Religion. A model of the universe based upon human hubris: the belief that of all the myriad solid objects and other collections of matter and energy in the universe, humans are qualitatively more important, and therefore have certain properties that transcend the natural laws that govern all the others, properties for whose existence no evidence has been discovered. Chief among these properties is the existence of a non-corporeal component or "soul" which can exist after all of the natural components of life have dissipated--and in some belief systems before they have been organized as well.

incorrect

there are quite a few religions that understand that all sentient life is composed of the same property - the benefit of the human form of life is that one has the opportunity to inquire about this property whereas a sojourn in a non-human form of life doesn't afford the opportunity

To summarize, religion is the belief that we are special, beyond the ways in which we have made ourselves special

so what is the driving the notion that genetics require modification ? The needs interests and concerns of grasshoppers?
Seems like science is also running along parallel lines