I am curious to know of people's views on what comes after death, or if they think nothing. I would really like people to state their views without someone attacking anothers belief. I don't want a debate on this, just to know what other people/religions believe. Please ask questions, but not saying what someone believes is a fantasy or some such, but serious questions. Please state articulate thoughts or opinions, not like Christians or Muslims suck or nonsense like that. Thanks.
What is your view of death, afterlife (or lack of), heaven?
- Thread starter truth
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The body is on temporary loan to us to get about on Planet Earth. It's simply an Earthsuit. The Spirit of God which dwells in each of us never dies. It is what created us as part of the God-Head. As the body starts deteriorating, the soul starts moving in and out of the body making it's final departure. I watched my mother die. She held on because she was afraid to die, but when I went and told her it was okay to go, that my Daddy was waiting for her, she went peacefully to sleep. She just needed to hear from me that I was going to be okay. Of course my thoughts have been with her, and she has contacted me in my mind, but not only me, my daughter who took care of her in her last days. She's very present in our lives still, and she's guiding us with our daily ventures. I don't believe in death. There is no such thing--only transition of the soul. The soul never dies. It has nothing to do with X or Xianity and eternal life. The soul is non-denominational. Every human has a portion of the Spirit of God in them. There is no religion beyond the grave. This is what I believe.
Cris, why do you think that? I am curious not only to what the belief is, but the reason as well.
I guess I should post my own since I asked the question. I believe in Christianity, as you may have guessed, and I believe in a literal resurrection when Christ returns due to His own death and resurrection. I believe there is one true religion, but that God will mete out reward or justice depending on what we did here. I also believe just because a person is a member of the religion I follow is guarantee of anything, rather I believe it places more responsibility on that person and is therefore answerable for more. I believe our life here is a test to see if we follow what is right and therefore be worthy of more. I believe that we will have our physical bodies again in a perfect form. This from my own religion and the scriptures.
Again, please do not turn this thread into a debate. I appreciate Medicine Woman's answer and Cris'. Thanks.
I guess I should post my own since I asked the question. I believe in Christianity, as you may have guessed, and I believe in a literal resurrection when Christ returns due to His own death and resurrection. I believe there is one true religion, but that God will mete out reward or justice depending on what we did here. I also believe just because a person is a member of the religion I follow is guarantee of anything, rather I believe it places more responsibility on that person and is therefore answerable for more. I believe our life here is a test to see if we follow what is right and therefore be worthy of more. I believe that we will have our physical bodies again in a perfect form. This from my own religion and the scriptures.
Again, please do not turn this thread into a debate. I appreciate Medicine Woman's answer and Cris'. Thanks.
Cris expressed quite succinctly what I believe about what comes after death. I believe that nothing happens after death because all the scientific evidence indicates that our consciousness and personality are manifestations of the incredibly complex and intricate structure of our brains. Therefore when our brains die, so do we. There is no evidence to indicate that our brain patterns are transmigrated; hence death is the end.
Jade Squirrel,
The main question is whether consiousness is result of brain alone (with its trillions of neurons and dynamic synaptic connectivities which together yield intelligence). Consciousness and intelligence are 2 different things. No scientific method / evidence is present that could confirm, objectively, a purely subjective experience such as consiousness. But there are lot of such methods / evidences in respect of objectively measurable intelligence. All i can say about you is 'yes sure you have intelligence but you might be conscious of things like i am conscious of things'. An extrapolation / assumption.
Neural network experts avoid the question of consciousness as metaphysical and subjective experience and focus only on the intelligence which only is observable and often being confused with consciousness by many.
Here's my opinion:
Death is the process in which the body starts to stop working; loss of senses, stiff limbs etc
Then, in my other opinion:
I'd say humans have souls (where do the feelings come from?), so, after death, the souls will live in either of the three afterlife:
1) Heaven-> where all human's wishes come true
2) Hell-> where all human experience what they hate the most for eternity(here's some 'a little rellevant joke'-> those hell dwellers who hate boredom will be treated with nothingness, so they are bored)
3) Becomes an earthly spirit-> they either become ghosts haunting their places of death, 'possessors' to cause poltergeist phenomena, etc...
Okay, those two may sound contradictive....
Death is the process in which the body starts to stop working; loss of senses, stiff limbs etc
Then, in my other opinion:
I'd say humans have souls (where do the feelings come from?), so, after death, the souls will live in either of the three afterlife:
1) Heaven-> where all human's wishes come true
2) Hell-> where all human experience what they hate the most for eternity(here's some 'a little rellevant joke'-> those hell dwellers who hate boredom will be treated with nothingness, so they are bored)
3) Becomes an earthly spirit-> they either become ghosts haunting their places of death, 'possessors' to cause poltergeist phenomena, etc...
Okay, those two may sound contradictive....
My view is that i have no clue one way or the other.
Both possibilities offer me similarly useless arguments.
1 - there ISN'T an afterlife because there is no evidence of it. Well, there is no evidence there isn't one either - so, this tells me nothing.
2 - there IS an afterlife because religion says so, its a matter of faith (the fact that the major beliefs contradict each other only complicate this further) - this also tells me nothing.
both views use circular logic to achieve their point.
Bottom line, its all speculation until my heart stops. Ask me then.
Both possibilities offer me similarly useless arguments.
1 - there ISN'T an afterlife because there is no evidence of it. Well, there is no evidence there isn't one either - so, this tells me nothing.
2 - there IS an afterlife because religion says so, its a matter of faith (the fact that the major beliefs contradict each other only complicate this further) - this also tells me nothing.
both views use circular logic to achieve their point.
Bottom line, its all speculation until my heart stops. Ask me then.
What else would you propose yields consciousness? Any supporting evidence?
This is not circular logic. It is simple deduction. For example, there is no evidence of an invisible purple troll on my left shoulder. It is therefore reasonable to presume that such a troll is not on my shoulder. However, I think it is also perfectly reasonable to make no claim regarding an afterlife. This is, after all, the default position.
my point was to when a claim IS made and the lack of evidence is the offered proof. If no claim is made its obviously not a circular argument because there is no argument.
when it comes to debating something as nebulous and outside of the "rules", so to speak, as religion we run into a problem. If the purple troll on your shoulder is omnipotent and all powerful it can always be argued by the believers that it is in fact there and beyond you to see it. Since spirituality is not burdened with reality as we see/feel it anything can be claimed and none of it can be shown as absolutely false.
when it comes to debating something as nebulous and outside of the "rules", so to speak, as religion we run into a problem. If the purple troll on your shoulder is omnipotent and all powerful it can always be argued by the believers that it is in fact there and beyond you to see it. Since spirituality is not burdened with reality as we see/feel it anything can be claimed and none of it can be shown as absolutely false.
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Truth,
Jade Squirrel gave a good answer but I’ll add some more to my statement and comment on yours.
Start with the 4th post of this thread –
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26147&highlight=Boris
Further - if you examine the neuro-physiological issues further you will find that the brain appears to provide all the mental functions we have identified, such as thinking, mind, memory, and emotions. We have discovered all of these though medical examinations of brain damaged people and by direct experimentation. While we do not yet know how many of the processes fully operate we do not have any reason to believe that there is anything else controlling the brain other than its own physical processes. We also know for certain that if a critical number of these neural processes and networks are seriously damaged then the brain cannot function and the person dies.
The other seemingly very relevant piece of information is that when a person dies then they are never seen alive or heard from again.
It seems to me a very simple deduction; you are your brain and if your brain is severely damaged then you will cease to exist.
My statement “Nothing. You are dead.” Has been reached through a great deal of thought and research. It is not just an idle opinion.
Now if you could show good reason why I might be wrong then I would be very interested.
Jade Squirrel gave a good answer but I’ll add some more to my statement and comment on yours.
Start with the 4th post of this thread –
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26147&highlight=Boris
Further - if you examine the neuro-physiological issues further you will find that the brain appears to provide all the mental functions we have identified, such as thinking, mind, memory, and emotions. We have discovered all of these though medical examinations of brain damaged people and by direct experimentation. While we do not yet know how many of the processes fully operate we do not have any reason to believe that there is anything else controlling the brain other than its own physical processes. We also know for certain that if a critical number of these neural processes and networks are seriously damaged then the brain cannot function and the person dies.
The other seemingly very relevant piece of information is that when a person dies then they are never seen alive or heard from again.
It seems to me a very simple deduction; you are your brain and if your brain is severely damaged then you will cease to exist.
I have a reasoned and scientific explanation for why this is impossible. Do you have any scientific explanation to support your belief?
I understand, but that idea is only based on handed down mythology. Can you show that God exists now and will do as you believe? I.e. is there any test or experiment you can perform today to prove your belief without recourse to ancient and highly dubious texts?
But you have no idea how that could or might occur. But I wouldn’t find that prospect as being particularly attractive. If my neural patterns were to ever be re-constituted then I would much rather return in something far more superior than a primitive human body. But if a human form were to be for eternity then that would be a living hell.
Difficult not to and answer your questions, this is a debate forum. But I’ll leave it there.
My statement “Nothing. You are dead.” Has been reached through a great deal of thought and research. It is not just an idle opinion.
Now if you could show good reason why I might be wrong then I would be very interested.
a simple point but i think it really cuts to the heart of it. Its pretty hard to argue that our consciousness doesn't reside in our brain because there are very few headless people walking around. If consciousness is not a function of the brain then we should be able to survive decapitation as easily as losing a hand.
The Universe is a sea of interacting force and energy and I am but a particular eddy that coalesced amongst the larger swirl of currents for a brief time. Eventually the particular pattern that is me will lose its cohesion and dissipate back into the larger currents. I will no longer be but all that I am will become something else. Personally, I plan to be cremated and my ashes scattered to facilitate this. Hopefully, something of my words and actions will cause some continued effect as well.
~Raithere
~Raithere
Rait,
The prospect of closer intricate links with other patterns and perhaps even mergers would not be inconceivable. The ultimate inevitability would seem to be the merger of all patterns into a single entity, and then……well perhaps the concept of divinity is not so fantastic.
It would seem your desire for survival is not as strong as mine. My plan is to protect my pattern indefinitely, with perhaps temporarily being forced to use vitrification before re-animation and the addition of extensions and enhancements.
The prospect of closer intricate links with other patterns and perhaps even mergers would not be inconceivable. The ultimate inevitability would seem to be the merger of all patterns into a single entity, and then……well perhaps the concept of divinity is not so fantastic.
It's something I do consider (I do, after all, enjoy being) although I am a bit less optimistic about the presently available preservation techniques than you seem to be. Hopefully though, I have a good 35 years or so left so who knows what might be possible. I'm hoping that the booming geriatric population might at least drive some longevity successes. But I'm content with the available prospects in either case.
I'm sure you are familiar with Kevin Warwick's plans along those lines but I'll place a link here for those who are not.
http://www.rdg.ac.uk/KevinWarwick/Implant/IEVersionSmall/irena.html
I've often wondered about the dispersal of the self through a network of separate but electromagnetically connected units, sort of like a swarm of insects with a telepathic single mind. One, it would afford some protection from physical threats. And two, one could disperse one's awareness over a vast area, even into space.
~Raithere
After all those extensions and enhancements, virtually there will be no limit to that then, super Cris will not be the Cris of today. Death of mortal Cris is inevitable in either case. sorry to frighten you.
That single entity is already available as God. just try to hook into that for eternity, Cris.
Technology will take time and there is no gurantee, go for spirituality and connection will be initiated by that entity itself. God loves you. You need not recognize Him as God. let Him be a SSI as you like.I wonder about that, "super chris" may not be the same as "today chris" but "next week chris" wont be the same as today either. What makes us, us? Just because we may be able to extend our lives doesn't mean we will cease to be ourselves. I am a totally different person than i was in high school, is high school buffys dead? If so who am i now then? The reason im me is because i think i am. i don't see how any successful "extensions and enhancements" would necessarily change that anymore than an artificial heart or hair plugs would.
Everneo,
There is only one thing that never seems to change and that is change itself. I remember myself as a 4 year old, as a teenager, my married years, the crisis years, and now the wealthy period. I was very different at each time and fully expect to change again and again. Change and growth should be welcomed – it is the spice of life.
I’m afraid that is just your fantasy. I’m talking about how something might be.
It is an ugly thought, that somehow humanity is the best he could do.
I’ll work with reality but you are welcome to your dreamworld and certain death.
I see no point in waiting forever. And besides love is significantly overrated.
There is nothing to recognize, except your dreams.
I'd also be open to those options if they became available to the public. The prospect seems somewhat optimistic considering the fact that a greater proportion of the population is entering retirement age in an era where technology abounds. But personally, I'd be content just having gotten the chance to live my life and share it with someone I truly love.
Sounds like the Borg.
I'm personally more inclined to keep my own individuality or perhaps just share my neural patterns with the one person I love.Whoa, now we're really talking Borg!