What you see affects what you hear.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by foghorn, Oct 21, 2023.

  1. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    The McGurk Effect.

    Watch the BBC clip at time tag 0:25.

    You see a man saying ba ba ba ba

    They change the picture to show the same man but now he ‘seems’ to be saying something else instead of ba ba ba ba. Yet the audio sound was not changed when the picture changed.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Interesting!

    To me, it sounds a bit like "fah fah fah" when the "wrong" video is used. How about you?
     
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  5. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    I get ba ba ba on first picture then fah fah with changed picture.
    And only ba ba ba with eyes closed all the way through.
    I did wonder how this was first noticed because I sort of guessed it must have been with some use of modern technical equipment. How would they have noticed in the ‘olden days’?
    It was in 1976:
    https://www.simplypsychology.org/mcgurk-effect.html
     
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  7. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    I read the text and decided to listen to the clip first to "train" brain to beat it. I listened twice then watched it with no sound so I could see the split screen.
    Then I watched it with sound and my brain was still fooled despite the training session.
    A nice video and I have never heard of the effect although it does not surprise me too much.
    The brain fills in gaps for us and gets it wrong sometimes.
    A lawn mower sounds like a bee in the room (I have a phobia)
    A tree in an unfamiliar park looks like a man dressed in black.
    Words too, we do not read every letter in a word we estimate it from the overall shape.
    Have you tried that test to try and read a sentence, with all the vowels taken out? Easier than you think!
     
  8. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    Pardon? I would probably lean Latin quicker.

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  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    There is not much between b, v and f sounds. I recall that in S American Spanish the b sounds often sounds like v. V is itself just a sounded version of f. But interesting that we all instinctively use lip reading to some extent, to complement what we think we have heard . We use other cues too, notably context, to resolve ambiguity in what our ears present to us.
     
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  10. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    We are talking about English in this case, also intonation, facial expressions help us.
    Flicking from one side of the screen to the other did completely fool my brain watching the video however.
     
  11. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    How about, "Sppsddly, tht mght b pssbl. Hwvr, snce ll wrds br sm cntn vwls, t wld mk t mr dffclt."
     
  12. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    The br got me. my bold.
    Supposedly, that might be possible. However, since all words br some counting vowels, It would make it more difficult.?
     
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  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, but what I mean is there is unacknowledged ambiguity in some of theses sounds, depending on exactly how they are enunciated. The Japanese, to give another example, have a single sound for what we would write as l and r. When they speak English it sounds just sufficiently wrong to our ears that we tend to think they are confusing the letters. And then the Russians, and Cockneys, and Brazilians, tend to pronounce their ls a bit like ws.
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    My understanding is a lot of modern Arabic is written like this, with vowels being filled by the reader according to context.
     
  15. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    Hebrew too.
     
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  16. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    Mmm. I read the sentence and thought I had it all.
    I will have to search to find the br!
     
  17. Pinball1970 Registered Senior Member

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    848
    Got it!

    "Supposedly that might be possible. However, since all words bar some contain vowels, it would make it more difficult."
     
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