Who Teaches Us Separateness?

S

Sufi

Registered Senior Member
Ego teaches us sparateness. Ego wants to convince you to believe the illusion of separateness. This belief is continually reinforced by outer experiences. Convinced of our separateness we begin viewing life as a competitive exercise. With each painful experience of feeling alone, apart and separate, ego tightens its hold.

Your ego thrives on convincing you that you are separate from your creator and all that you perceive, and ego will do anything to keep you in that mind set. This sense of aloneness do not let the person to see himself and all others connected to the invisible intelligence, the force of oneness.

In order to undestand what is referred to as ALLAH truly as the One and Whole --without confusing with a god--, you have to shutter the illusion of separateness. When that idea of yourself is shuttered, you will experience a new kind of peacefulness. But for the ego this is a dangerous proposition to accept because it threatesns ego's importance and the feeling of specialness.

All human violence is a reflection of the belief in a separate ego and a separate god. If we come to understand that there is no god, and Allah as defined in the Koran is not a separate god and if we knew we are all one and that Alah is within us, we would know that any harm to another is a violation of Allah. We would not be able to behave as we do to each other. We would treat others as we would like to be treated. No longer would we have to compete or be better than anyone. Rather than viewing ourselves as distinct from a God and everyone else, we will experience our life as connected rather than separate.

The feeling of separation is so deep in some egos that convincing the person otherwise is a major undertaking. However, you know inside for yourself, whether what you have just read describes you.
 
I couldnt disagree with a single word. It was the death and resurection of Jesus that taught me that :)

peace

c20
 
wow you dont half spout some crap, sufi.
I'd rather have my pride/ego helping me rise above the trapings of a religion for the betterment of all, using my sense reason and intellect and pure clarity of thought, than becoming delusional, and fantasising over some nonexistent thing, and then going out in the name of god/allah and killing someone, because he looks, smells, and has a different religion to me.

being lonely is one thing , it's not the pride/ego making them that way "how utterly stupid", but turning to a god/gods, is only going to make matters worse, then you start talking to yourself, and seeing halllucinations.

religion is the cause of the harm in the first place, so it pointless getting more you gain nothing.
thats like closing the stable door, after the horse escaped.

pride/ego can be a bad thing sometimes, but it's not going to run amock, while you stand and watch that just lunacy.

your pride/ego is not a separate creature, go and see a doctor, your already hallicinating .
 
All human violence is a reflection of the belief in a separate ego and a separate god
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How about the Wars that the Prophet(pbuh) fought? How about Dawoud (david) (pbuh) Musa (moses) pbuh Sulaiman (solomon) etc..... where they mislead as you are claiming also? also please explain this ayat (interpetation of meaning):


[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know
 
Sufi,

But we are separate and wishing otherwise simply ignores reality. If we want oneness with each other we will need to intelligently direct our evolution in that direction and that requires hard work and not superstitious useless wishful thinking.
 
I have to agree with Cris on this one. While there may be an interconnectedness between all things in the universe, there is definitely a separation to be understood between things. For example, there is separate identity between one thing and another. Is it not true that I am me and you are you? If it is true, then there is separate identity there. There is also separate activity. Is it not true that my actions are my own, and your actions are your own, and that my actions are different from your actions? If it is the case, then there is a separation of activity. There also seems to be separation of events. Is it not true that what happened yesterday happened then, and not now, and that what is happening now didn't happen yesterday, or tomorrow? If so, then there is separation between events within time. Is there not separation of thoughts. Isn't it true that what you are thinking is not what I'm thinking. Isn't it true that there is dispute in the world, and if there is dispute in the world it is the result of differing thoughts? If so, then there is separation of thought. The fact is, while there may be an interconnection between all of us, there is certainly also separation. If true reality is limitlessness, then there can be no room for limits, and therefore no difference amond events, thoughts, actions, etc...
 
Sufi and c20,

Your agreement does make sense: That the Allah and Jesus concepts offer you the same degree of escapism from reality. Life is tough, we do decay and die, and we are unfortunately very alone. There is naturally an overwhelming emotional desire to not accept that this is all there is yet. I often wish that you were right.

Cris
 
surenderer said:
How about the Wars that the Prophet(pbuh) fought? How about Dawoud (david) (pbuh) Musa (moses) pbuh Sulaiman (solomon) etc..... where they mislead as you are claiming also?
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They were not mislead, and you are not asking a question, you are simply forwarding your judgments. The courtesy in asking a question is in being objective for an answer.

The fact is that you cannot understand their reason because of your prejudgment.
 
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[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know
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You were told before that without accepting and experiencing the "dislike" part of this verse, you cannot grasp the entire meaning. You must experience fisrt fighting as an object of dislike to you for the sake of experiencing the wholeness of Allah, despite your ego urges you the other way and to jump to fighting part without any preceding experience of dislike.

Only afterwards you could begin questioning the reason of prophets, from within a completely new perspective, completely contrary to ego-based judgments.
 
beyondtimeandspace said:
I have to agree with Cris on this one. While there may be an interconnectedness between all things in the universe, there is definitely a separation to be understood between things. For example, there is separate identity between one thing and another. Is it not true that I am me and you are you? If it is true, then there is separate identity there. There is also separate activity. Is it not true that my actions are my own, and your actions are your own, and that my actions are different from your actions? If it is the case, then there is a separation of activity. There also seems to be separation of events. Is it not true that what happened yesterday happened then, and not now, and that what is happening now didn't happen yesterday, or tomorrow? If so, then there is separation between events within time. Is there not separation of thoughts. Isn't it true that what you are thinking is not what I'm thinking. Isn't it true that there is dispute in the world, and if there is dispute in the world it is the result of differing thoughts? If so, then there is separation of thought. The fact is, while there may be an interconnection between all of us, there is certainly also separation. If true reality is limitlessness, then there can be no room for limits, and therefore no difference amond events, thoughts, actions, etc...
Click to expand...

Look at your body, so many organs you have, seemingly with separate activities, separate identities, different actions... etc. What would it mean for YOU if one of your finger urged the next one "I am me, you are you... We are not one!"

Theirs is a richness and YOU are one. None of them is separate from you but they each serve the purpose for which they exist there.
 
sufi said:
Theirs is a richness and YOU are one.
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( and I am another )
sufi said:
None of them is separate from you but they each serve the purpose for which they exist.
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thats exactly what beyond said sufi.
beyond said:
Is it not true that I am me and you are you? If it is true, then there is separate identity there. There is also separate activity.
Click to expand...
 
Sufi said:
They were not mislead, and you are not asking a question, you are simply forwarding your judgments. The courtesy in asking a question is in being objective for an answer.

The fact is that you cannot understand their reason because of your prejudgment.
Click to expand...





I know they werent so then please explain:

All human violence is a reflection of the belief in a separate ego and a separate god.
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Kinda makes you wrong doesnt it? So please explain why the Prophets (peace upon all of them) fought wars but you seem to feel that those who do "have a separate ego and a separate god"
 
Sufi said:
You were told before that without accepting and experiencing the "dislike" part of this verse, you cannot grasp the entire meaning. You must experience fisrt fighting as an object of dislike to you for the sake of experiencing the wholeness of Allah, despite your ego urges you the other way and to jump to fighting part without any preceding experience of dislike.

Only afterwards you could begin questioning the reason of prophets, from within a completely new perspective, completely contrary to ego-based judgments.
Click to expand...





So then am I correct in saying that as a Muslim you feel as if the Koran tells Muslims that under no circumstance are they allowed to fight or defend themselves? Hopefully I can get a simple direct answer from you this time


Koran also states in Chapter 2, Verse 190: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors."



Maybe thats wrong too though huh Sufi :rolleyes:
 
There are parts in our bodies which we can't use perfectly (like our toes), we haven't become conscious of those parts yet. We can also control inner organs like the heart and whatever, which otherwise work automatically. Animals are not conscious of themselves really, so they work automatically and serve the law on the animal level. When we lift our finger, we direct our will, we concentrate on that spot and then move the finger.

We are able to become conscious of everything when we become aware of our self. Then we will actually be unconscious... like a tree or something. This body which we think is "me" will go on its life without "me" and "I" will be gone... the eternal rest. We have escaped the wheel of life and death.

The feelings of separation stems from our body. (everything in the material world is separated) We identify ourselves with this one sided body (2 things can't be on the same place at same time in the material world) but in our consciousness it is possible for 2 things to be at the same time at same place, and they are then only 1 thing. When we know ourselves, we can't lack anything, because we know everything... All knowledge is self knowledge.

Everything lives in me. The "self" which also is all living creatures self, so also I, am infinite, that way everything is in me, and "I" fill the whole universe. Everything that is, is me. In everything that I love, I love myself... For only what we think we don't love is what we haven't discovered in ourselves.

In myself is life and the only truth, and the one who has known oneself completely he loves everything and one as one, because he is one with them.
---
Bruce Lee: "The one-ness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized only when false notions of a separate self, whose destiny can be considered apart from the whole, are forever annihilated."

" Voidness is that which stands right in the middle between this and that. The void is all-inclusive, having no opposite - there is nothing which it excludes or opposes. It is living void, because all forms come out of it and whoever realizes the void is filled with life and power and the love of all being."
---
It's easy. To wake up from this dream. Just forget oneself. Do nothing... just act... but. Are you even real. So I'm talking to myself. To this self within everything. It's useless, because people must go their own way.
---
Why would "hallucinations" not be real. There can be hallucinations of the mind which are good, which are real and good. There is nothing. I don't understand why I'm talking about this, this is known to everyone.
 
Sufi, why do you think that there is a oneness? What makes you believe in it? What proof is there of it? Yes we may share similarities between eachother...the same blood type, same organs, same body structure...but we are all very unique. Our DNA makes it so. And this oneness that you speak of created our DNA...our individuality. We are like coins coming from the same mint...we share many qualities...but we are all very different.

And why, if there is a oneness to everything, even created the ability for us to even have an ego in the first place? Isn't that contrary to it's very nature?

One more question. Why do muslims always say "peace be upon him" after mentioning a prophet? Isn't he already at peace in heaven? Can he be troubled for some reason?
 
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