Write4U's stream of consciousness

[Write4U]

More importantly, they use a very limited definition of consciousness and they said so. Do you remember that?

I certainly do. I believe that is usually the case when a concept is tested. You begin with an easy example, such as a single-celled Paramecium which navigates via kinetic pressures that allow the cell to avoid obstacles. But more remarkably the cell exhibits memory of such conditions as regularly timed intervals. Thus the cell "learns" to navigate obstacles. But does it merit "consciousness"?

IMO, consciousness began when the self-referential experiential network looked up and asked a question. Before then the self-referential homeostatic network already was controlling the physical well-being of the organism autonomously.

 

[James R]

IMO, consciousness began when the self-referential experiential network looked up and asked a question.

What a completely useless claim that is.

 

[Write4U]

What a completely useless claim that is.

Ok, do better.

 

[Write4U]

What a completely useless claim that is.

Do you know why insects are so successful? They don't ask questions.

 

[James R]

Ok, do better.

Do better than just making some shit up, using meaningless terms of my own invention, you mean?

 

[James R]

The aim of writing something is to communicate something, Write4U.

Making up your own language is a failure to communicate, unless you start by explaining the language.

 

[Write4U]

The aim of writing something is to communicate something, Write4U.

Making up your own language is a failure to communicate, unless you start by explaining the language.

I have told you many times to ask if I am not clear enough. Frankly, I see no problem to begin with. A little thought will
clarify many of my posits.

 

[Write4U]

What do you understand to be the "human model of thinking"? How does human thinking work, in your opinion?

The processing of self-referential "differential equations" . Self-reference evolves into cognition.

Partial Differential Equations is All You Need for Generating Neural Architectures -- A Theory for Physical Artificial Intelligence Systems
Ping Guo, Kaizhu Huang, Zenglin Xu

In this work, we generalize the reaction-diffusion equation in statistical physics, Schrödinger equation in quantum mechanics, Helmholtz equation in paraxial optics into the neural partial differential equations (NPDE), which can be considered as the fundamental equations in the field of artificial intelligence research.

We take finite difference method to discretize NPDE for finding numerical solution, and the basic building blocks of deep neural network architecture, including multi-layer perceptron, convolutional neural network and recurrent neural networks, are generated.

[/quote]The learning strategies, such as Adaptive moment estimation, L-BFGS, pseudoinverse learning algorithms and partial differential equation constrained optimization, are also presented. We believe it is of significance that presented clear physical image of interpretable deep neural networks, which makes it be possible for applying to analog computing device design, and pave the road to physical artificial intelligence. [/quote]
https://arxiv.org/abs/2103.08313#

p.s. Nobody claims fully developed conscious AI. But neither is a human baby.

 

[James R]

The processing of self-referential "differential equations" .

Explain to me what it means for a differential equation to be self-referential. I think you're just making shit up as you go along.

Self-reference evolves into cognition.

How?

Partial Differential Equations is All You Need for Generating Neural Architectures -- A Theory for Physical Artificial Intelligence Systems
Ping Guo, Kaizhu Huang, Zenglin Xu

The learning strategies, such as Adaptive moment estimation, L-BFGS, pseudoinverse learning algorithms and partial differential equation constrained optimization, are also presented. We believe it is of significance that presented clear physical image of interpretable deep neural networks, which makes it be possible for applying to analog computing device design, and pave the road to physical artificial intelligence.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2103.08313#

You googled that article up after reading my objections, not before, didn't you? Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[Write4U]

Explain to me what it means for a differential equation to be self-referential. I think you're just making shit up as you go along.

How?
Partial Differential Equations is All You Need for Generating Neural Architectures -- A Theory for Physical Artificial Intelligence Systems

You googled that article up after reading my objections, not before, didn't you? Who do you think you're fooling?

Naah... I have mentioned and debated the universality of "differential equations" several times in the past.
I believe I posted this or a similar article before. Did you miss it?

And how did my original statement fool you? You asked me; "How?", and I provided proof of my assertion.
Now you want to apply a "differential equation" in trying to prove me a fraud.
Well, I am not going back in years of history and thousands of posts to prove you wrong.

The term "differential equation" for once tells you exactly its function in all dynamic systems, including its self-referential nature.

This is what happens when you don't trust my taste and judgment in deciding what may be of interest to this forum, which proudly displays several sub-forums for discussion of scientific subjects, but then censors the content based on some relatively minor issues.

 

[exchemist]

Explain to me what it means for a differential equation to be self-referential. I think you're just making shit up as you go along.

How?

You googled that article up after reading my objections, not before, didn't you? Who do you think you're fooling?

It looks as if self-reference/self-referential is becoming another of his obsessions cf. his new microtubule thread, which he has already self-hijacked onto the subject.

 

[Pinball1970]

The term "differential equation" for once tells you exactly its function in all dynamic systems, including its self-referential nature

Mathematicians do not speak like this, it is a nonsense term you have decided to churn out at every possible thread.
If you want to understand Calculus then get a high school book out on it.
It will not say, "relational," or "self referential," anywhere.
It will mention, limits, rates of change, Maxima and minima.

You have just had a ban so TRY and learn from it. You are polluting threads.

 

[Write4U]

If you want to understand Calculus then get a high school book out on it.

But why are you assuming we are talking about calculus?

I did not use the term self-reference in context of mathematics.

This is what I am talking about.

Self-Reference and A General Theory of Intelligence
Jun 27, 2020

The complexity we find in the universe is a consequence of self-referential systems. Undecidability as observed in Turing machines, formal systems, and cellular automata arises due to self-referential systems.

more....

Humans have an odd memory system. What humans experience is not the same as what humans remember. In general, what is experienced is different from what is described. This disentanglement is intrinsic in all self-referential systems.

We can understand self-reference better if we understand that it always involves a conversation between the parts and its whole. Parts experience and the whole is described.

All models are descriptions of reality. Experience, however, is only based on the comparison of models with reality. Parts experience through models. Parts experience the whole through their model of the whole.

A self-referential system is one where the parts cannot distinguish the model of the whole from themselves even though the parts are individually not the same as the whole (collectively).

The peculiar nature of life and thus biological systems is that they are able to construct themself from the inside out. This is also true for brains and the abstractions they generate. These abstractions are generated from the inside out.

A general theory of intelligence must be based on a model of self-referentiality. Without one, it is heading nowhere.

more... https://medium.com/intuitionmachine/self-reference-and-a-general-theory-of-intelligence-4344d97cd00f

I'd like to hear some comments on this.

 

[origin]

I did not use the term self-reference in context of mathematics.

The term "differential equation" for once tells you exactly its function in all dynamic systems, including its self-referential nature.

 

[James R]

Write4U:

This is you in post #21, above:

The processing of self-referential "differential equations" .

It seems that was your "answer" to the question I asked you: "how does human thinking work, in your opinion?"

And this is you in post #26:

I did not use the term self-reference in context of mathematics.

In what context are differential equations not mathematics?

Really, this is ridiculous. You can't even keep your story straight over the course of less than a page of posts.

What's the matter with you, man? Why can't you focus?

Also, all of this is now way off the original thread topic, which was about maths and Chat GPT.

The complexity we find in the universe is a consequence of self-referential systems.
....
I'd like to hear some comments on this.

I have two comments:

1. This is a new topic, not the one that the is the subject of this thread.
2. This is a new claim you are making, so far completely without explanation or justification. You need to provide evidence or argument in support of your thesis (in a different thread).

 

[Pinball1970]

But why are you assuming we are talking about calculus?

What do you think calculus is? What do you think differentiation is?

Differentiation is about rates of change and partial differentiation is about the change in one variable whilst the others remain constant.


As always you cannot explain mathematics in words you have to do the actual work.

In my book that I have on me now, that is chapter 18 of a 400 page text book, for beginners.

I would say good for A level students (age 16-18) and a handy go to for first year uni (18 years)

I certainly did not cover partial differential equations at A level, so there is some further maths in there for the more advanced, 16-18 year old student.

 

[Write4U]

What are you comparing them to though? Google Search or HAL from 2001 A Space Odyssey?")

My question is why you are comparing AI with human intelligence at this early stage of evolutionary processes in now autonomously learning AI that has access to the entire open internet. (including many false human originated facts and speculations).

The problem is that you are comparing it to evolved human intelligence. Even if that is the only type of intelligence there is, then our use of models using known human thought processes, might lead to a better understanding of cellular intelligence and memory and a possibly associated emergent consciousness in non-biological complex data processing.
This is what I am exploring and hopefully discussing without the prejudicial ad hominem.

What do you think calculus is? What do you think differentiation is?

Hey,I am advocating Tegmark's mathematical universe. All dynamics are based on "differential equations".
A differential equation is causal to dynamical action in an attempt to find balance and equity.

Newton's laws allow these variables to be expressed dynamically (given the position, velocity, acceleration and various forces acting on the body) as a differential equation for the unknown position of the body as a function of time. In some cases, this differential equation (called an equation of motion) may be solved explicitly.

Read more...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation
and

Physics teachers’ definitions of equity inform how they identify inequity and take action to transform it. In this paper, we adapted Gutiérrez’s equity framework from mathematics education research to physics education research. The framework defines equity in terms of four dimensions: access, achievement, identity, and power.

Read more... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feduc.2023.1099480/full

Differentiation is about rates of change and partial differentiation is about the change in one variable whilst the others remain constant.

Yes, the fundamental functions that involve dynamic "change".

Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output

And IMO, it is the dynamic change occurring during the data processing in our brains that gives rise to an emergent internal awareness of this process.
It's not the data that is experienced, it's the change in a self-referential system that can be measured and quantified as "thought".

 

[Write4U]

Ask it to code a basic ping pong routine and it can do it. You have to know enough code to use a physics module and to use a graphics module to add shoulders so the ball doesn't go flying all over the room.

Moreover, even a simple ping pong program can solve a game's "problem", given enough time.

Open @ 2:00 for program "finding a solution" to the object of the game.

It's a beautiful example. The impact of AlphaGo AI going against Lee Sedol, the 7x world champion Go player is revealed by the reaction of Lee Sedol who had started as the prohibitive favorite against a "programmmed" computer and completely underestimating the emergent qualities of self-learning AI systems, that can test themselves and improve (evolve) over time.

After rudimentary exposure to the game, AlphaGo taught by playing against itself several millions of games, simultaneously learning both offensive and defensive strategies.

 

[James R]

Write4U:

What do you think calculus is? What do you think differentiation is?

Hey,I am advocating Tegmark's mathematical universe. All dynamics are based on "differential equations".

You did not answer the questions that Pinball1970 asked you. In fact, nothing in your post addresses those questions.

A differential equation is causal to dynamical action in an attempt to find balance and equity.

That is pure drivel. Meaningless word salad.

A differential equation isn't "causal" to anything.
"Dynamical action" is a term you just made up.
"balance" is undefined by you in this context and hopelessly vague.
"equity" is a completely irrelevant attempt to distract.

Read more...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation

Why have you not read that article, despite citing in on several occasions?

Or did you read it and fail to take anything away from it?

And IMO, it is the dynamic change occurring during the data processing in our brains that gives rise to an emergent internal awareness of this process.

Nobody cares. Your opinions on what happens during data processing in the human brain are completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Also, there is no "internal awareness" of the process, whatever it might be.

It's not the data that is experienced, it's the change in a self-referential system that can be measured and quantified as "thought".

Pure world salad. Useless.

 

[Write4U]

That is pure drivel. Meaningless word salad.

TY..at least it is not labeled "off-topic" and accumulating gratuitous "demerits".

If I reply that what you just wrote in reply to my post is pure drivel and meaningless word salad, where does that lead us?
I have told you before that any "drivel" you do not understand is open to challenge and explanation, but you leave no room for DISCUSSION on the merits, because of semantics.

Why have you not read that article, despite citing it on several occasions?

You cannot see your contradiction in that question?
I have not only cited it, I quoted it. Would that suggest I read it?