Write4U's wobbly world of word salad woo

[Pinball1970]

I addressed quantum way way back. May I remind you that quantum is still a mathematical function.

Quantum Superposition doing mathematics in a computer? Can you explain that?

Holy crap.


"I addressed quantum way way back."


When? Every time you use and have ever used the word quantum it was wrong, not even wrong.


“May I remind you that quantum is still a mathematical function.”


“Not even wrong” does not apply to this sentence, I need something more. I will ask around, I am not qualified.


“Quantum Superposition doing mathematics in a computer? Can you explain that?”


Not really since this sentence does not make sense either.


Look mate, you have to face facts that science is not for you, certainly not anything relating mathematics physics or chemistry.


IF you were willing to go about learning in the correct way we could help but you wont.

 

[exchemist]

Holy crap.


"I addressed quantum way way back."


When? Every time you use and have ever used the word quantum it was wrong, not even wrong.


“May I remind you that quantum is still a mathematical function.”


“Not even wrong” does not apply to this sentence, I need something more. I will ask around, I am not qualified.


“Quantum Superposition doing mathematics in a computer? Can you explain that?”


Not really since this sentence does not make sense either.


Look mate, you have to face facts that science is not for you, certainly not anything relating mathematics physics or chemistry.


IF you were willing to go about learning in the correct way we could help but you wont.

There are differential equations in QM of course. Schrödinger's "wave" equation - which is really a diffusion equation - is a partial differential equation, for instance (involving 2nd derivatives of spatial coordinates and 1st derivative of time, whereas a true wave equation has 2nd derivatives of all 4).

But at the end of the day, like any theory in science, QM is a set of concepts, involving mathematical relationships between physical quantities that need to be defined in words. Mass, charge, momentum, position, electron, nucleus, energy (potential and kinetic)......all these are physical concepts requiring words to explain what they are (and, importantly, by implication how they are measured).

So to say any theory "is" mathematics would be rather silly, at least if intended literally.

But he's not even saying that. He's asserting that something called "quantum" (??) , which he has made up, "is" a mathematical function. Which is bonkers.

 

[Write4U]

"Quantum is still a mathematical function".

Er, right.

No further questions, m'lud.

How about "quantum mechanics" are fundamentally mathematical (mathematical in essence)?

If not, then what is the proper completion of the sentence that tries to describe the relationship between the concepts of quantum mechanics and the universe's inherently mathematical functions?

Let's see, some of it right here,

Mathematical formulation of quantum mechanics

The mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics are those mathematical formalisms that permit a rigorous description of quantum mechanics. This mathematical formalism uses mainly a part of functional analysis, especially Hilbert spaces, which are a kind of linear space. Such are distinguished from mathematical formalisms for physics theories developed prior to the early 1900s by the use of abstract mathematical structures, such as infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces (L2 space mainly), and operators on these spaces. In brief, values of physical observables such as energy and momentum were no longer considered as values of functions on phase space, but as eigenvalues; more precisely as spectral values of linear operators in Hilbert space.[1]

These formulations of quantum mechanics continue to be used today. At the heart of the description are ideas of quantum state and quantum observables, which are radically different from those used in previous models of physical reality. While the mathematics permits calculation of many quantities that can be measured experimentally, there is a definite theoretical limit to values that can be simultaneously measured. This limitation was first elucidated by Heisenberg through a thought experiment, and is represented mathematically in the new formalism by the non-commutativity of operators representing quantum observables.

Prior to the development of quantum mechanics as a separate theory, the mathematics used in physics consisted mainly of formal mathematical analysis, beginning with calculus, and increasing in complexity up to differential geometry and partial differential equations.

Probability theory was used in statistical mechanics. Geometric intuition played a strong role in the first two and, accordingly, theories of relativity were formulated entirely in terms of differential geometric concepts.

The phenomenology of quantum physics arose roughly between 1895 and 1915, and for the 10 to 15 years before the development of quantum mechanics (around 1925) physicists continued to think of quantum theory within the confines of what is now called classical physics, and in particular within the same mathematical structures. The most sophisticated example of this is the Sommerfeld–Wilson–Ishiwara quantization rule, which was formulated entirely on the classical phase space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_formulation_of_quantum_mechanics#

and

Overview and fundamental concepts

Quantum mechanics allows the calculation of properties and behaviour of physical systems. It is typically applied to microscopic systems: molecules, atoms and sub-atomic particles. It has been demonstrated to hold for complex molecules with thousands of atoms,[4] but its application to human beings raises philosophical problems, such as Wigner's friend, and its application to the universe as a whole remains speculative.[5] Predictions of quantum mechanics have been verified experimentally to an extremely high degree of accuracy.[note 1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics#

Where exactly is mathematics not associated with "quantum mechanics", by any description of the phenomenon?

See, you are commenting on the semantics of the science I post (sometimes inadequately), not the content.

It is your refusal to lend a generous ear to what I post that has always stopped any potentially interesting conversation before it has even had a chance to begin.

I believe that, over time, my exchanges with James have yielded some informative and productive discussions, and a forum is not useful if it is not producing informative discussions.

My contribution was the research and posting of what I considered relevant information from reliable scientific sources.

I don't try to replace any mainstream science, I try to show my relative but considered perspectives and understanding of the fundamental properties of spacetime.

I am also eager to learn facts, not linguistics.

 

[Write4U]

I understand this, but I could not possibly do this justice.
That's why

I quote mainstream and theoretical scientists

Wigner's friend

Nature of the wave function[edit]
Going into more detail, Wigner says:

"Given any object, all the possible knowledge concerning that object can be given as its wave function. This is a mathematical concept the exact nature of which need not concern us here—it is composed of a (countable) infinity of numbers. If one knows these numbers, one can foresee the behavior of the object as far as it can be foreseen. More precisely, the wave function permits one to foretell with what probabilities the object will make one or another impression on us if we let it interact with us either directly, or indirectly.

] In fact, the wave function is only a suitable language for describing the body of knowledge—gained by observations—which is relevant for predicting the future behaviour of the system. For this reason, the interactions which may create one or another sensation in us are also called observations, or measurements. One realises that all the information which the laws of physics provide consists of probability connections between subsequent impressions that a system makes on one if one interacts with it repeatedly, i.e., if one makes repeated measurements on it. The wave function is a convenient summary of that part of the past impressions which remains relevant for the probabilities of receiving the different possible impressions when interacting with the system at later times."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner's_friend

Oh, and I like this too;

The wave function is a function of the degrees of freedom corresponding to some maximal set of commuting observables. Once such a representation is chosen, the wave function can be derived from the quantum state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_commutation_relation

 

[James R]

Where?

"deterministic to every physical interaction in the universe".

You shouldn't make extravagant claims - especially when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[James R]

I addressed quantum way way back. May I remind you that quantum is still a mathematical function.

Here are two examples of correct usages of the word 'quantum':

1. "Quantum physics is an exciting area of modern science." Note: 'quantum' is an adjective, here.
2. The quantum of energy carried by a photon of light is calculated as E=hf. Note: 'quantum' is a noun, here.

Here's an example of a misuse of the word 'quantum':
"Quantum is still a mathematical function".

It's not just that the intended meaning of the statement is factually incorrect. The statement doesn't even use the word properly.

 

[Pinball1970]

I try to show my relative but considered perspectives and understanding of the fundamental properties of spacetime.

I am also eager to learn facts, not linguistics.

Your perspectives are wrong, your usage of the scientific terms are wrong.
You cannot just learn facts and expect to understand a concept, you must start at the beginning, in your case the very beginning.

 

[Write4U]

1. "Quantum physics is an exciting area of modern science." Note: 'quantum' is an adjective, here.
2. The quantum of energy carried by a photon of light is calculated as E=hf. Note: 'quantum' is a noun, here.

This is what I mean by the generic term"quantum" as a field of science.

Description
In physics, a quantum is the minimum amount of any physical entity involved in an interaction. The fundamental notion that a physical property can be "quantized" is referred to as "the hypothesis of quantization". Wikipedia


Examples:
Quantum examples
The particle portion of the wave-particle duality involves how objects can be described as “quanta.” A quanta is the smallest discrete unit (such as a particle) of a natural phenomenon in a system where the units are in a bound state. For example, a quanta of electromagnetic radiation, or light, is a photon.

Quantum

Electrons don’t just travel in circles. Because of quantum mechanics, their positions are described by probabilities that they are in a certain location. These figures describe the probability of electrons in various configurations in a hydrogen atom.
https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsquantum-mechanics#

Note the assigned values for each pattern, its all very mathematical.

But I'm sure, you're talking about "superposition", where values cannot be accurately established until the wave-function collapses and a physical value pattern emerges which "becomes the deterministic causality" of subsequent physical interactions.

A quantum is a value and therefore belongs in the world of mathematics. Mathematics is used to solve "probability problems".

 

[Write4U]

I love this stuff.

9.4: The Quantum-Mechanical Model of an Atom

Shortly after de Broglie published his ideas that the electron in a hydrogen atom could be better thought of as being a circular standing wave instead of a particle moving in quantized circular orbits, as Bohr had argued, Erwin Schrödinger extended de Broglie’s work by incorporating the de Broglie relation into a wave equation, deriving what is today known as the Schrödinger equation. When Schrödinger applied his equation to hydrogen-like atoms, he was able to reproduce Bohr’s expression for the energy and, thus, the Rydberg formula governing hydrogen spectra, and he did so without having to invoke Bohr’s assumptions of stationary states and quantized orbits, angular momenta, and energies;

quantization in Schrödinger’s theory was a natural consequence of the underlying mathematics of the wave equation. Like de Broglie, Schrödinger initially viewed the electron in hydrogen as being a physical wave instead of a particle, but where de Broglie thought of the electron in terms of circular stationary waves, Schrödinger properly thought in terms of three-dimensional stationary waves, or wavefunctions, represented by the Greek letter psi, ψ.

A few years later, Max Born proposed an interpretation of the wavefunction ψ that is still accepted today: Electrons are still particles, and so the waves represented by ψ are not physical waves but, instead, are complex probability amplitudes.

>∣ψ∣2∣ψ∣2 describes the probability of the quantum particle being present near a certain location in space. This means that wavefunctions can be used to determine the distribution of the electron’s density with respect to the nucleus in an atom. In the most general form, the Schrödinger equation can be written as:

https://byjus.com/jee/schrodinger-wave-equation/

https://chem.libretexts.org/Courses/College_of_the_Canyons/Chem_201:_General_Chemistry_I_OER/09:_Electronic_Structure_and_Periodic_Table/9.04:_The_Quantum-Mechanical_Model_of_an_Atom

 

[Pinball1970]

I love this stuff.

9.4: The Quantum-Mechanical Model of an Atom

https://byjus.com/jee/schrodinger-wave-equation/

https://chem.libretexts.org/Courses/College_of_the_Canyons/Chem_201:_General_Chemistry_I_OER/09:_Electronic_Structure_and_Periodic_Table/9.04:_The_Quantum-Mechanical_Model_of_an_Atom

More pasting with absolutely ZERO understanding.
Got it.
You keep repeating the same idiotic process again and again.
You do not listen, you will never learn.

I'm out.

 

[James R]

This is what I mean by the generic term"quantum" as a field of science.

The relevant field of science is called "quantum physics". The word 'quantum', there, is an adjective. It is descriptive of the noun 'physics'.

There is no field of physics called 'quantum'. Understand?

A quanta is the smallest discrete unit ...

The word 'quantum' is from Latin. The word 'quanta' is the Latin plural of the word 'quantum'.

Hence, it is incorrect to refer to "a quanta" or "three quantum". It is incorrect to write "A quanta is the smallest discrete unit..." or "A quanta of EM radiation is a photon". Understand?

But I'm sure, you're talking about "superposition"...

What gave you that idea? Did I use the word 'superposition' in any recent post I have made? I did not.

I have been talking about your incorrect use of technical terms. That's all I have been talking about. Understand?

 

[Write4U]

The relevant field of science is called "quantum physics". The word 'quantum', there, is an adjective. It is descriptive of the noun 'physics'.
There is no field of physics called 'quantum'. Understand?

The word 'quantum' is from Latin. The word 'quanta' is the Latin plural of the word 'quantum'.

Hence, it is incorrect to refer to "a quanta" or "three quantum". It is incorrect to write "A quanta is the smallest discrete unit..." or "A quanta of EM radiation is a photon". Understand?

Why are you telling me? I have never used the term quanta when discussing a singular quantum.

What gave you that idea? Did I use the word 'superposition' in any recent post I have made? I did not.

No, you haven't mentioned it, but it is clear that when you speak of quanta not being mathematical objects you are referring to the superposition of quanta, which allows only for prediction of probabilities.

I have been talking about your incorrect use of technical terms. That's all I have been talking about. Understand?

Yes, and I would like it if you don't use false examples.

 

[Write4U]

So to say any theory "is" mathematics would be rather silly, at least if intended literally.

I have never said that.
See, that's my point. Not only do you not read what I cite as supporting material, you invent things I have never said and required you to add a qualifier.

Quantum Mechanics Explained: Mathematical Guide for Beginners
February 24, 2023

The ideas of quantum mechanics are usually (almost always) unintuitive, which is perhaps because it involves concepts that concern matter that is too tiny and not directly observable, which is also why the quantum world doesn’t follow what we intuitively understand from the directly observable world.

Schrödinger Equation – Describing the Quantum World

The Schrödinger equation is based on the idea that a quantum system can be further described by something called a wave function.

A wave function can be roughly interpreted as a mathematical function that encodes all possible quantum states that the system can be in.

The Schrödinger wave equation describes how this wave function (and thus, the quantum system) changes over time, based on the characteristics of the quantum system like energy.

The Schrödinger equation is a (partial) differential equation, which means that it involves the rates of change of certain quantities.

In the case of the Schrödinger equation, these quantities are the wave function and the energy of the quantum system.

more..... https://evincism.com/quantum-mechanics-explained-mathematical-guide-for-beginners/#

 

[exchemist]

I have never said that.

You said: "Quantum is still a mathematical function".

 

[Write4U]

You said: "Quantum is still a mathematical function".

I also said;

Where exactly is mathematics not associated with "quantum mechanics", by any description of the phenomenon?
See, you are commenting on the semantics of the science I post (sometimes inadequately), not the content.

You just can't resist, can you? This way we shall never get to discuss anything but "the meaning of words".

 

[origin]

This way we shall never get to discuss anything but "the meaning of words".

I don't think that is a fair assessment. We have also discussed your lack of knowledge about science in general and your lack of knowledge of physics and math in particular. There has also been a lot of discussion about your steadfast refusal to learn anything presented here to help you.

So it is clearly not just about the meaning of words that you cannot seem to understand.

 

[Write4U]

So it is clearly not just about the meaning of words that you cannot seem to understand.

And that is why I do not use the word "just". You just made that up.

 

[origin]

And that is why I do not use the word "just". You just made that up.

Golly, you are so clever and ironic.

 

[Write4U]

Golly, you are so clever and ironic.

Golly, you are so clever and dishonest.

 

[origin]

Golly, you are so clever and dishonest.

Where was I dishonest?