But I did. Doesn't matter when. No such assumption posted. You posted this falsehood: "It is man that transgresses the laws, not God". I noted it, is all. I didn't claim you had thought about it. I recommend you do think about it - and your motives for not thinking about it, earlier.
To no one in particular Years ago I read a book called The Jet Propelled Couch. If you can find a copy I'm sure it would make fascinating reading for all in this thread and others of much the same flavour The essence of the main story as told by the writer, a psychiatrist, is as follows. By the way I am going to use lay language not the long professional diagnosis A referral person walked into his office They began to converse The psychiatrist was puzzled because there did not appear to be anything wrong He asked why had the person been sent The patient said that he had been making trips to another planet where he was treated like a prince and had been able to solve many of the planets problems and save it from destruction The psychiatrist noted patient was as nuttey as a fruit cake He also noted this was such a deeply held belief he would need to engage with the patient at a deep level He began to question the patient about the other planet, its inhabitants and gained as much information as he could and made extensive notes as to what he was told From memory this took a few years One day the psychiatrist was questioning the patient about a discrepancy over some account he had been given earlier The patient became uneasy Noticing this the psychiatrist asked what was the problem The patient confesses that for a few months he had come to the understanding he was as nuttey as a fruit cake Why had he continued to provide details about the planet and inhabitants and the problems of the planet then Looking the psychiatrist in the eye he said "Because you seem to enjoy it so much" Here endith the lesson of how we can all enjoy our fantasy's which have no connection with reality Gave the psychiatrist a insight into his self awareness The Jet Propelled Couch - find it - read it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So why don't you say what you're talking about, then we can discuss it? If I'm asking, it does. Or don't I matter? I'm still waiting to hear why it is a '' falsehood"? Jan.
I did. Discuss away. No, it doesn't. That question/answer doesn't matter. How much you identify with it I couldn't say. I am not an expert on why your God transgresses the laws, and I don't care enough to become one. Why don't you ask someone who is?
/// If you do not have a better argument, it is futile to say it is a weak argument. It is futile to claim someone rejects what you cannot even show exists. <>
I don't believe in a design process, unless God created a nature for the creation to be destroyed. I believe in a singular eternity.
The idea of 'laws of nature' does seem to be derived from religion. Religion seems to have acquired the idea by analogy with the edicts of ancient kings, whose word became law (and hence shaped reality). So the idea emerged that somebody or something must have initially spoken the laws that have governed the universe ever since. Even if we reject theistic sorts of religion (not all religion is theistic) we still have the problem of where the 'laws of physics' come from. Why does reality behave this way rather than that way? What accounts for and undelies all those equations that theoretical physicists love so much? The idea that the designer might not have been the highest God remined me of Neoplatonism (which is deeply intertwined with Christian and Islamic theology). In the Neoplatonic sort of religion that was popular in late antiquity, God is conceived of impersonally as the eternal and incomprehensible Source. (They called it "the One".) This level of divinity is supposedly incomprehensible to the human mind and exceeds every human concept. The motive there was presumably to preserve divine transcendence and it's the source of theistic agnosticism and apophatic theology in the Western traditions. (India arrived at very similar ideas, probably independently. The influences between Western and Indian traditions is a subject of scholarly debate.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology Then reality supposedly originated by a series of emanations from the One. In a nutshell, unchanging logical form and mathematical structure (the Platonic Forms) emanated like sunlight from the One. Then active, changing and creative cosmic mind (Plato's "Demiurge") emanated from that. And so on, as the Demiurge crafted reality in a series of steps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism#Emanations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge There's still a bit of that in modern science, where different kinds of reality are explained in terms of supposedly more fundamental levels. Life is explained in terms of chemistry which is explained in terms of physics. (Physicists get uncomfortable with the question of what explains physics.) In late-antique and early medieval Neoplatonism the divine is conceived of as a ladder-like hierarchy where each step is explained by the next higher step. Contemplatives try to ascend that ladder in various spiritual exercises to approach and better understand the divine.
There is no better or worse argument. They're all as non effective as each other. It is not for someone to show something to another, what they already know, but choose to reject. Jan.
/// Again, I cannot accept or reject what I do not know exists. I do not know any god exists. You perpetually show yourself a damn fool by assuming you know I know what I do not know. I do not even believe you know. I do not believe you believe. There is at least 1 argument weaker than others & that is your arrogant asinine assumption that I know what I do not know. A couple times, you indicated that you understand & accept this then you go right back to your absurd assumption. It is futile to claim someone rejects what you cannot even show exists. <>