What's Your Tangent This Time? Arthur: So, clear this up for me: Are you asserting that presidential primary public opinion polls thirteen months before the general election are accurate, or are you just bawling because a well-established right-wing propagandist with an incredibly childish view of logic got called out? You really do need to understand, Arthur, that history shared between two people who are not yourself does not always conform to your fantasy. It's also worth noting, Arthur, that in the question of Herman Cain's polling against Obama, while RealClearPolitics might still show Cain with a sliver lead in the primary field, he now trails Obama by an RCP average of 8.2%: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! This is the problem with trying to judge anything about voter sentiment thirteen months out. To wit: This looks pretty much like we might have expected, but who knows, maybe Herman Cain will revive his campaign, overcome his GOP challengers, and go on to slay the evil Democrats in the general in order to end class warfare so that 99% of the population can bankroll the top 1%, as your argument would imply the majority of Americans want. It just amazes me how simplistic the conservative view of politics apparently needs to be.
Tiassa, if you'll notice I did not mention anything about Cain. If Cain gets the Republican nomination I seriously doubt that I would even vote since there won't be anyone running that I would want to vote for. It was this ugly BS of yours that I was commenting about: I'm sick of people claiming that just because we don't see eye to eye on the solution to an issue that we must want to destroy the country, or that we are heartless or cruel etc etc ad nauseum. Arthur
Well if it were just a matter of not seeing eye to eye, people would not think Republicans/Tea Partiers are heartless, cruel, dumb, hypocrits, etc. The problem for you and others like you is that actions speak louder than words. Do you not understand that threatening to cause the nation to go into an intentional and unnecessary default as Republicans/Tea Baggers in congress did this year is not good for the nation? Do you not understand that the demonization of those that disagree with the Republican Party line - calling them traitors and demonic for criticizing Republican officials (e.g. Fox News, Ann Coulter) is not good for the nation. Unfortunately for you and those like you, your actions and the actions of your party speak better than your words.
Again Joe, just because you don't think a specific Republican tactic or program is good for the country doesn't mean you are necessarily right about it. Nore is everyone always happy with everything the party they align with does. We all tend to vote based on a preponderance of agreement, not necessarily on absolute agreement, with a platform. As far as Fox News or Ann Coulter are concerned I don't believe either is the official voice of the Republican Party. While I don't listen to either of those, I do know that both are in the entertainment business, so do try to keep the two separated in your discussions. The DIFFERENCE is, though I may disagree with you on a number of issues, I don't presume that you're heartless, cruel, dumb or a hypocrite. We are all Americans and we all want what is best for America, even if we disagree on how to accomplish that. Making it PERSONAL and attacking the motives and character of people you disagree with politially accomplishes nothing towards coming up with solutions that both sides can agree with. Arthur
Well explain to me Arthur, what is right about causing the nation to intentionally and necessarily default on the nation's debt. Just what is the "official" Republican Party source? Please explain to me how even in the wildest machinations that could be construed as benefical to the nation? Please explain the intellectual basis for the political games your party has played and continues to play with the fate of the nation? Where is the intellectual justification; where are the studies that bolster and support your parties positions? Oh, that is right. There are none. How about explaining all of the Republican flip flops? Whenever Obama does what Republicans have advocated, suddenly Republicans and folks like you are opposed to it (e.g. healthcare reform). The facts are Arthur millions of Republicans/Tea Partiers get their primary news through Fox News, Clear Channel, etc. each and every day. You can call it entertainment. But it still does not diminish the influence these sources have on Republican/Tea Party devotees. You seem to live in a narcissistic fantasy world in which you make the blemishes you don't like go away with a grand pronouncement from Arthur. The facts are very simple. The actions of your Party and those like you speak volumes and hold more veracity than your words and those with your POV.
Ah Joe, brinksmanship is indeed part of politics and the Republican majority did that to get concessions they would not have gotten otherwise. And we didn't default on the Nation's debt. Not a whole lot different than how the Democrats got Obamacare passed using a loophole in the legislative process. The Official Platform of the RNC is produced by the platform committee of the RNC. The RNC is NOT responsible for what is on the TV, Fox or otherwise. If you don't like their programming, don't watch it Joe. I don't. We aren't playing political games Joe and while you might not agree with our legislative agenda, but it's not games. Indeed that's why so many Democrats were voted out of office in 2010 Joe, because MORE people agreed with what the Republicans were suggesting should be done than with what the Democrats were doing. A lot more. And so, once again, the DIFFERENCE is, though I may disagree with you on a number of issues, I don't presume that you're heartless, cruel, dumb or a hypocrite. Indeed, we are all Americans and thus we all want what is best for America, even if we disagree on how to accomplish that. There is no basis for attacking the motives and character of people you disagree with politially and doing so accomplishes nothing towards coming up with compromise solutions that both sides can agree on. Arthur
Unfortunately, because of the way First Past the Post works even if the Republicans do get the majority of the popular vote, it doesn't gaurantee a Republican led government. It's one of the flaws of First Past the Post that it can lead to a minority led government.
Arguably those concessions were only achieved because the Democrats cared more about reaching a compromise and not defaulting on US debt then calling a republican bluff. What if the Democrats had called that bluff and made no concessions?
Tell that to all of the folks who had their retirement savings ruined because of that brinksmanship. Never before in the history of this nation has the full faith and credit been the subject of a stupid political maneuver. Did you get what you wanted? You got a downgrading of the nation's debt. So is that what you guys wanted? This is not about me Arthur. This is about the perceptions people have of the Republican/Tea Party. And as much as you want to dismiss Fox, Clear Channel and other Republican/Tea Party/Conservateve news sources, they are very much a part of the political movement to which you subscribe. If one gauges leadership by ability to control the party, then certianly Rush Limbaugh is the Republican Party leader as Republican officials are careful to mimick Limbaugh's positions. And should they ever wane from Limbaugh's positions, they are ususal before the king in a matter of hours with a public apology in hand. Well what do you call all the flip flops Arthur, if your Republicans/Tea Partiers are not playing games? Why are they not passing legislation that they have been for historically, if they are not playing games? Why don't they have a real jobs program backed up with some sort of evidence? And could it be that Democrats lost control of the House in 2010 because of the misinformation disseminated by Republicans than any actual agreement on principal?
That's only in our Presidential race, and that's the rule in most States, such that it is possible via our Electoral system for a president with a slight minority of popular votes and still win, but the President does have to have the majority of the States electors behind them and electors are based on population. Since Senators are elected two per state, it's also not one person one vote because the states vary so much in population, so again the absolute number of people voting for a party could differ from the result, but in practice that isn't a typical issue, and as I showed, that didn't happen in the last election. Our House of Representatives however is pretty close to one person one vote and so that legislative group will almost always be related to the popular vote. Arthur
No one had their retirement savings ruined by the Republicans. That's just BS. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/05/debt-ceiling-limits-through-the-ages/
No, they lost it because MILLIONS of the voters were fed up with the Democrats in office Joe. Claiming your party lost because people are stupid is a poor way to garner support.
No that is you creating a straw man. If you look at polling on the issues, Democrats come out way ahead of Republicans. Republicans have a great disinformation machine (i.e. Fox News, Clear Channel, et al.). Just because Republicans are great with control of the media, it does not follow that everyone is stupid. If follows that they are misinformed.
No Joe, there is only ONE official POLL and that's the one done at the Voting Booth. In the 2010 Senate races the Democrats lost 6 seats. The Popular vote was 33.8 million for Dems (45% of votes) and 37 million for Republicans or a bit over 49% of the votes. In an even more granular look at the minds of the voters, in the Congressional races: The Democrats lost 63 seats (the highest loss of a party in a House midterm election since 1938) The Popular vote was 51.4% of the vote or 44.6 million for the Republicans and only 44.8% of the vote, or just 38.9 millon for the Democrats. You can try to spin it all you want, but the voters were quite clear about where they stood, and it wasn't because they were misinformed.
Oh, where were you in the Great Recession of 2008 when 401k's got whacked by more than 50 percent? Where were you when all of those unemployed people ate up their 401k savings? Apparently you missed all of that living in your Republican fantasy world. Where were you when the market crashed 600 points after the debt ceiling debacle?
Arthur you inability to see that Democrats win on the issues in polling, does not support the contention of you and those like you that Republicans have some sort of mandate. Hell you look at a Republican these days and they (Republicans/ditto heads) take that as a mandate. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The Global Credit Crisis was not because of Republicans. And the DOW started this year at 11,500, it's at 12,000 now, so NO, people didn't lose their 401K savings this year because of the issue over the Debt Ceiling. And 600 points does NOT a market crash make. Heck it went down almost 300 pts today, BFD. Arthur
