Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by moonlight, Aug 28, 2004.

1. moonlightRegistered Member

Messages:
25
Dear all:

1.If Jesus's mission was to the lost sheep of
Israel,why was it confined to Palestine where only
two of the original tribes had settled? Did that
mean that Jesus had failed in his mission?

2.Why should Jesus specifically forbid, on the one
hand, preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles Matthew
7:6,15:24,26) and yet on the other, tell the
disciples to teach all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy
Ghost? (Matthew 28:19)

3.Why did Jesus prohibit the Gospel from being preached
to the Gentiles during his ministry (Matthew 10:5,
7:6,15:24-26) but after his 'resurrection' tell them
to preach the Gospel to the whole world? (Mark
16:15)
was there such a fierce debate within the early
Church (and particularly between Peter and Paul) as
to whether the Gospel should be preached to the
Gentiles? (Acts 15:6-30)

4.Out of all the signs that Jesus could have given
about himself, he chose to give the sign of Jonah:
This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a
sign but no sign shall be given to it except the
sign of Jonah. (Luke 11:29, Matthew 12:39, Matthew
16) Jonah was swallowed alive by a whale and
remained in its belly alive for three days. For
Jesus to have properly fulfilled the prophecy, he
would need to enter the tomb alive and come out
alive. Why should Jesus give this, of all signs, if
he was to die and be resurrected?

5.If Jesus's message was for the whole of mankind,
why did he forbid his disciples to preach to the
Gentiles? (Matthew 10:5-6)

6.When Jesus was asked what the only way was to true
salvation,he replied: keep the Commandments (Matthew
19:17).
The first of the Commandments was to believe in the
Oneness of God (Exodus 20:3). Why did Jesus answer
so if he believed in and was part of the Trinity?
Why did he not refer to the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Ghost?

7.Jesus said that he had not come to change the Law of
Moses (Matthew 5:17). The Law of Moses teaches that
there is one God (Exodus 20:3). If Jesus was
introducing the concept of Trinity, why did he not
say that he was changing the Law of Moses or
introducing a different ?

8.Jesus prophesied that men of his generation would not
pass away without witnessing his second coming and
prophecy unfulfilled? Why was it that Jesus did not
return within the lifetime of his generation?

9.Why did Jesus forbid the disciples from calling
people fools yet called the Jewish leaders with
names like vipers and children of adultery? Is it
conceivable that a Divine Being would behave in this
way?

10.According to Luke, when the Jews tried Jesus they
asked him Are you the son of God? Jesus replied you
say that I am (Luke 22:70) which could mean: you say
that I am but I do not. If his divinity was
something he came to tell the world, why did he not
ambiguous terms?

11.In the Old Testament, the term Son of God was
applied to David (Psalms 89:27), the nation of
Israel (Exodus 4:22), the children of Israel
(Psalms 82:6), and Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:10).
Jesus also used it for the peacemakers (Matthew
5:9). If Jesus was referring to himself as the Son
of God in the literal sense, why did he not make it
clear that he was differentiating between a
symbolic reference and a literal meaning of the
term?

12.Jesus was the Messiah, the fulfillment of Old
Testament prophecies. He frequently made reference
to himself as the suffering servant foretold in the
Book of Isaiah (Matthew 8:17 & Isaiah 53:4; Luke
2:30 & Isaiah 52:10; Luke 22:37 & Isaiah 53:12). The
Messiah of the Old Testament was, however, promised
by God that he would not be killed (Psalms 34:19,
Isaiah 53:10). How was it, therefore, that the Jews
had succeeded in killing the Messiah if Jesus died
on the cross?

13.If Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him,
why did he continue to permit him as a disciple? Why
did he not tell the other disciples so that Judas
could be excluded from his closest circle of
followers?

14.If Jesus knew that one of his disciples would betray
him, why should he say that all twelve disciples
would sit upon twelve thrones? (Matthew 19: 28 )
15.If Jesus knew that he was to die on the cross, why
did he spend all night praying in the Garden of
Gethsemane seeking deliverance: Father if it is
possible may this cup be taken from me? (Matthew
26:39)

the Garden of Gethsemane? What effect would this
incident have on the faith of his disciples and
contrary to what Jesus had taught?

17.If Jesus believed that his prayer in the Garden of
Gethsemane would not be heard, why did he tell his
disciples earlier that prayers are answered?: Would
any of you who are fathers give your son a stone
that God hears the prayers of man more than a
and it will be given to you; seek and you will find;
knock and it will be openedtoyou. And whatever you
faith. (Matthew 21:22; John 11:41,42)

18.If Jesus's prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane was
not to be heard, why was it something that he wanted
the disciples to witness? If the prayer was not to
be heard, what useful purpose does this story serve?

19.Why should Matthew, Mark and Luke all report
(Matthew 26:39, Mark 14:36, Luke 22:42) that Jesus
asked for the cup of suffering to be passed if
possible yet John (John 18:11) reports that Jesus
hastened for the crucifixion saying shall I not
drink the cup the Father hath given me?

20.Why did Pontius Pilate just simply ignore his wife's
plea to have nothing to do with Jesus on account of
her bad dream? (Matthew 27:19) If the very mission
of Jesus was to suffer death, why should God
Almighty show a dream to Pilate's wife which would
cause her to try and persuade her husband to release
Jesus? Would not that appear to counter God's own
plan?

21.If Pilate really wanted Jesus to die on the cross,
why would he fix the crucifixion on a Friday evening
knowing that the Jews would have to take him down
before Sabbath and that such a little time on the
cross was insufficient for him to die?

22.If Jesus knew all along that he was destined to be
crucified to death (indeed if that was his purpose
in life), why did he exclaim on the cross Eli, Eli
Lama Sabachthani meaning my God my God why hast thou
forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)

23.If Jesus was about to die, how was he able to say in
a clear loud and audible voice that he was thirsty?
(John 19: 28 )
Sabachthani (Matthew 27:46) reported in their
original Aramaic form? Could it be that Jesus's
helpless cry left such a vivid impression of a man
seemingly bereft of hope that anyone who heard them
would remember the exact words?

25.Vinegar is often considered to have a stimulating
effect,rather similar to smelling salts. Why, in
Jesus's case, did it suddenly lead to his death?
(John 19:29,

26.How could an onlooker tell the difference between a
man on the cross who had died and a man who had
fainted (Mark 15:39) particularly when it is
reported that it was dark at that time? (Mark 15:33,
Matthew 27:45, Luke 23:44)

27.If Jesus was dead when he was removed from the
cross, why did his body release blood and water,
since blood does not flow at all from a dead body?
(John 19:34)

28.Why did Jesus die before the other two who were
crucified with him even though the legs of the other
two were broken to hasten death? (John 19:32)

29.It is reported that dead saints came out of their
graves and made themselves known to many (Matthew
27:52). When the Jews saw this, why did they not
immediately profess faith in Jesus? Where did these
saints go? Who did they see? Why is there no account
of this story elsewhere other than in Matthew's
Gospel?

30.If the above story of saints rising from the dead is
not based on an actual historical event, what other
statements there in the Gospels which are not baon
actual historical facts?

31.Jesus said that the killing of prophets ended with
the killing of Zacharias (Matthew 23:35-36). How was
it, therefore, that the Jews had succeeded in
killing another prophet?

32.Crucifixion was meant to be an accursed death
(Deuteronomy 21:23). If Jesus was crucified, did
that mean he also suffered an accursed death?
33.Why was it that a Roman soldier was so readily
prepared to allow Joseph (a subjected citizen) to
take down Jesus's body from the cross without
checking and without Joseph having any apparent
lawful authority?

34.Why is there is no direct account by Joseph of
Arimathea or Nicodemus that Jesus was dead when he
was account would have settled the matter beyond
dispute?

35.Why should Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus take so
much trouble to recover the body of Jesus when this
would have been the duty of the nearest relative?
36.Why did Pilate agree to release the 'body' to Joseph
of Arimathea (a known Jew and follower of Jesus) if
he was not sympathetic to Jesus?

37.Crucifixion was a slow death. It usually lasted
several days. Death followed from exhaustion,
inability to respire property as a result of being
in an upright position or attacks by wild animals.
Why did Jesus, who was a fit and healthy man used to
walking the countryside for long distances, die so
quickly in only a matter of a few hours?

38.If Jesus really was expected to die in such a short
time, why did Pilate express surprise at Jesus's
death? (Mark 15:42-44)

39.Why would the Jews bribe the soldiers to say that
Jesus's disciples had stolen the corpse whilst they
(the soldiers) were asleep? If the soldiers had
truly related this story, they might have been asked
how they knew that the disciples had stolen the
corpse if they were asleep?

40.Why did the Jews not go and check the tomb
themselves? They had put much effort into getting
Jesus crucified. A friend of Jesus had been allowed
to take the body away. Why did they not visit the
tomb before Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of
Jesus did?

41.Why did Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus not stay
with Jesus in the tomb after taking down his body
from the cross to witness the resurrection? Jesus
had apparently told his followers that he would die
and rise after three days. (Matthew 16:21, 17:23,
20:17-19) This report had even reached the Jews
(Matthew 27:63). Why did not Joseph and Nicodemus
remain with Jesus to witness the event?

42.Did the Jews really believe that Jesus had died? If
so, why did they ask the Romans for a guard to be
placed outside the sepulcher? Matthew says the Jews
explained this by saying that Jesus's disciples
dead. However, if the Jews really believed this to
be the reason for the request, why could they not
have asked the disciples to produce the risen Christ
as proof? If the disciples had then done so, the
Jews could then presumably rearrest Jesus.

43.Why were the Roman authorities so disinterested
about the apparent removal of the body if this is
what the Jews were claiming?

44.Why was the stone moved from the tomb (Matthew28:2)
if it was a supernatural rising?

45.When Mary Magdalene and Mary the Mother of Jesus saw
him, he was wearing gardener's clothing (John
20:15). Where did Jesus get these clothes from? His
divided them drawing lots (John 19:23). It was not
through Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus because
they are only reported of having taken in herbs,
aloes and a linen shroud (John 19:39, 40). What was
the significance of Jesus wearing gardener's
clothing (as opposed to normal clothing)? Was it
meant to be a disguise? If so, for what purpose?

46.Why were the women who visited the tomb terrified if
Jesus was dead (Mark 16: 8 )? What did they have to be
terrified of if the Jews had succeeded in killing
Jesus?

47.If Jesus could conquer death and rise from thedead,
why did he fear seeing the Jews afterthe
crucifixion? particularly as death had no more power
over him? (Romans 6:9)

48.Why did Jesus disguise himself after the
resurrection and appear only to the disciples?
Surely, this was the great manifestation of his
power and the fulfillment of the purpose of his
creation. What was the purpose in keeping it all a
secret now?

49.If Jesus was the risen Christ, why did he meet his
disciples behind closed doors and not in the open as
he used to? (John 20:19)

3. audibleun de plusieurs autresRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
954
welcome moonlight, I like your post, however, I dont think you will ever get the 49 answers.
I cant contribute, as I am an atheist, and believe the bible to be a work of fiction.
and yes I have read it, this is why I am an atheist, inconsistencys.

5. moonlightRegistered Member

Messages:
25
well,
thanx audible... you see i just hope people will read it and think about it
they won't find an answer anyway.

7. §outh§taris feeling causticRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
4,832
Question 1
This is the easiest so. Jesus didn't come to die for the Jews. In case you don't remember from Sunday school, He came to die for the WHOLE world. Where He lived/died, doesn't mean He died for the people of that location alone.

8. CyperiumI'm always meValued Senior Member

Messages:
2,985
Question 7
Because the law of Moses (which I actually don't know that much about) wasn't actually changed at all. The concept of Trinity is still only one God. God doesn't change.

God is God is God. Jesus and the spirit and the Father. God is love.

Maybe the spirit joins them? Maybe the spirit is the essence of love? However, we don't know enough to say for sure what is and what isn't.

9. §outh§taris feeling causticRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
4,832
Question 47

The Bible never said Jesus feared the Jews before/after resurrection.

Question 48

Matthew 28:19-20. It was obviously no 'secret'.

Question 37

10. StarOfEightA Man of Taste and DecencyRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
684
And I ask everyone taking shit from other websites to at least cite it, and hopefully provide some kind of independent, maybe even intelligent commentary.

11. surendererRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
879
Actually another question that puzzles me is the death of Judas (he isnt a nobody but definatly an important figure in Christianity) because in the Bible we have two seperate accounts:

Matthew 27:3-5
When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself.

Acts 1:18
Now this man [Judas] bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.

Not only is his death different in each account but notice one says he bought a field with the money from his"deceit" and another says he repented and gave the money back

12. ViRuSRegistered Member

Messages:
1
Hey,

To the one about when Jesus said that the men of his generation would witness the second coming of the lord, well they did and some of your questions (if they even are yours?) controdict it. When Jesus died on the the cross his soul is gone? so then when the dead prophets come back to life and rise from the grave and they here of Jesus not being in the tomb he was sealed in, that means that they heard of (not seeing) the second coming of Christ? None the less WHO THE HELL CARES IF THEY DIDN'T WITNESS IT, IF YOU WERE DEAD FOR SEVERAL DAYS/WEEKS/YEARS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN ROSE FROM YOUR GRAVE WOULD THAT NOT BE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO YOU?????

Also go and visit you local mortuary and you'll find if you stand a dead body upright and jab a blunt spear into its side it will bleed water, then blood....any mortician will tell you that.

Also in the time there has never been a state of Palestine only until recently, so you find even though jesus did settle on on what would be known nowadays a PALISTENIEN LAND back then it wasn't so his missian wasn't failed.

Another thing is that if his mission has failed, TELL ME HOW MANY CHRISTIANS ARE THERE IN THE WORLD TODAY???

13. 786Searching for TruthValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,089
How many of those Christians are following what JESUS taught? I don't care about Paul. I want to know about Jesus's teaching. How many of the those Christians follow Jesus's teachings?

Peace be unto you

14. surendererRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
879

Wrong sir I suggest you look at some ancient maps:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/palestine_1020bc.jpg

Thats Palestine in 1020 BC

15. Medicine*WomanJesus: Mythstory--Not History!Valued Senior Member

Messages:
8,346
§our§tar: Question 1
This is the easiest so. Jesus didn't come to die for the Jews. In case you don't remember from Sunday school, He came to die for the WHOLE world. Where He lived/died, doesn't mean He died for the people of that location alone.
*************
M*W: What an anti-Semitic statement! Jesus was a Jew. He was rabbi. His only interest was for the Jews. He was an enlightened Jew, most likely from the wisdom MM taught him. She was the more enlightened one -- The Apostle of the Apostles and The Beloved Disciple.

There are so many discrepancies surrounding Jesus' death on a crucifix. Friday was the Sabbath, and crucifixion would not have been attempted as late as 3:00 PM on the Sabbath. Furthermore, crucifixion was only used for the most heineous of criminals, not mere rebel rousers. In considering that Jesus was hung on the cross at 3:00 PM, he would have had to be taken down before 6:00 PM. In three hours time, it was not likely that he even died. After all, to hasten his death under the Sabbath time crunch, they would have broken his legs. A mere stab wound will not kill a person necessarily unless they hit an artery. If Jesus was already dead, he wouldn't have bled from the wound. Only live people bleed. MM and the BVM were under his cross. This would have never been allowed by the Romans. Joseph of Arimathea was a high-ranking and wealthy land owner (hence his personal tomb). He cut a deal with the Roman soldiers to let him take Jesus down (that is, if Jesus were even on the cross). So Joseph, Jesus' uncle, took him down from the cross. Most likely, Jesus was never even placed in the tomb. Joseph had also arranged for a boat to transport Jesus, MM, their child/ren, Jesus' mother and himself to safer territory. The boat was leaky and had no oars. As soon as Joseph got Jesus down, they sailed away to France. Researchers believe this is where Jesus is buried. Joseph of Arimathea went on to Glastonbury in the British Isles. Jesus may have died on the boat. This hasn't been discovered as yet, but there are some villages and towns in Septimania (seven heads) that have peculiar names. Arques (Ark), Carcassone (body of the son), and some others I can't recall just now. The area of Septimania and the Languedoc were originally Jewish settlements as sea travel on the Mediterranean was already well-established by Jesus' time.

So, in answer to your comment, Jesus didn't come to die for the whole world. In fact, he didn't die for anyone. Most likely he lived to a ripe old age and died before MM died. Go to your local art gallery and view as many paintings as you can depicting MM with the skull. Who else's skull could that be? More than one artist has captured this setting from time immemorial. Or, go to your local bookstore and look at the books in the religion section. Look on the Internet. This information is published EVERYWHERE!

You can believe whatever you want, but nobody died for you, nor anyone ever will.

16. Medicine*WomanJesus: Mythstory--Not History!Valued Senior Member

Messages:
8,346
ViRuS: "Also in the time there has never been a state of Palestine only until recently, so you find even though jesus did settle on on what would be known nowadays a PALISTENIEN LAND back then it wasn't so his missian wasn't failed.
*************
M*W: First, welcome to the wonderful world of sciforums, ViRuS!

You are correct when you say Palestine wasn't even in existence in Jesus' day. We know that today, Bethlehem is a town in Palestine as are other towns associated with Jesus. I mostly wanted to comment on Jesus' mission. If Christianity was once the most predominant world's religion, Jesus' mission did FAIL.
*************
ViRuS: Another thing is that if his mission has failed, TELL ME HOW MANY CHRISTIANS ARE THERE IN THE WORLD TODAY???
*************
M*W: Of the total world population today, Christianity has about 25% adherents. The remaining 75% include Islam, Judaism Non-Believers, and so on. Statistic analyses indicate that the current total population of the world's Christians can be stretched to 33% implying an 8% of the world's population 'claim' to be Christian for lack of a true religion. In other words, people who never attend church nor have a religious belief who are calling themselfs 'Christians' because Christianity was the religion of their parents, etc. When census takers come around every ten years, there has been a constant decline in the number of Christians. Also, people may prefer to 'call' themselves 'Christian' on record.

The decline of Christianity in Europe has been declining at a much faster rate (even in Italy!). Australia is another rapidly declining Christian population. So, if you look at the world's population statistics, you will see that Christianity will soon become a thing of the past.

17. §outh§taris feeling causticRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
4,832
Somehow you totally misconstrued my statement...

Matthew 28
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations (NOT just Jews), baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

He did not die for non-Jews alone. He died for both Jews and Gentiles.

There are other statements He made in support of this.

He did not say the good sherperd died for the 'Jewish sheep', or for the 'Gentile sheep' alone.

This statement is so shamefully untrue that even the most passionate critics of Christianity would blush with embarassment.

To France?

18. Medicine*WomanJesus: Mythstory--Not History!Valued Senior Member

Messages:
8,346
§our§tar: This statement is so shamefully untrue that even the most passionate critics of Christianity would blush with embarassment.

To France?

************
M*W: You have got to be the most ignorant of all the xians on this forum. Books have been written claiming this, and I don't mean novels like The Davinci Code. You don't know anything about the true life of Jesus. You believe what Paul taught, Pauline Christianity. That's not what Jesus taught. He taught Judaism, but he was enlightened with the help of MM.

BTW, you've indicated on several posts that the worst critics of xianity blah blah blah. Just who are these critics. NAME THEM!
[/QUOTE]

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21. entonwww.truthcaster.comRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
454
Jesus Christs mission is to fulfill the law and the writings of Moses and of Psalms and of the prophets. He did not fail his mission.

Thats what we call as orders.

He did not prohibit. Is debate bad?