A excerpt from my ISU! 11/24/03 - Complete ISU Added!

it's called Intellectual Anti-Semitism Against the Collective Jew
gives it a little spice with the rhiteiousness he feels writing this paper

 

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no , it´s called shut-the-fuck-up-otheadp

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rhiteiousness

If I knew if that was I would disagree...

Intellectual Anti-Semitism

Against non-semities, ok..

 

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Against non-semities, ok..
the term "anti-semitism" refers EXCLUSIVELY to Jews. (although we're not the only semites)

why are you being an idiot?

 

the term "anti-semitism" refers EXCLUSIVELY to Jews. (although we're not the only semites)


Anti-Semitism is a recent machination to refer to the non-Semitic Jews of Europe; anti-Semitism is a euro-centric device, effectively used to stifle debate. But not this time, there is nothing there that is anti-Semitic, if so then why would nico reference Jewish groups? Are they anti-Semitic? If I am anti-semitic, or nico is. Then these people are anti-semitic as well:

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why are you being an idiot?

No I think you are.

 

1) the term "anti-semetic" was coined in 1870-something by a social scientist whose name i forgot. look it up on google.

2) you are being the idiot for nitpicking semantics while ignoring the meaning of the word

3) those people in the picture
i) have their own reasons for being anti-Israel
ii) have their own political opinion, as everyone does
iii) are an insignificant minority sect of Judaism (Neturei Karta, i presume)
iv) are, in fact, anti-semetic in a way. they, who are Jews, don't want other Jews to live in security in their own homeland
v) their anti-semitism is worse because it's not the stupid silly anti-semitism such as "Jews kill babies and drink their blood", but intellectual anti-semitism which is ten times worse because the anti-semite is intelligent
vi) they are in fact religious extremists (their extremism is not reflected in violence but they are extremists none-the-less).

i don't care. let them be extremists and worship as they wish. they're my brothers and I still love them even though their philosophies and opinions on certain things are ignorant/old/self-hating/etc..

as for you and nico, you are pure anti-semites. putting an intellectual spin on it and sprinkling it with rhiteousness does not change it.

 

1) the term "anti-semetic" was coined in 1870-something by a social scientist whose name i forgot. look it up on google.

Thanks for proving that it's a Euro-centric machination. It's not real, it's purely rhetoric’s with no logic behind it. Empty words.

2) you are being the idiot for nitpicking semantics while ignoring the meaning of the word


The non-existent meaning, ok.

iv) are, in fact, anti-semetic in a way. they, who are Jews, don't want other Jews to live in security in their own homeland


Not only is that obviously false in the Thoracic sense, but also because these Jews and many more do not support the state of Israel. They cannot be anti-Semitic if their religion supports their position (as stated in nico's essay). You are labeling them anti-Semitic because you believe them to be anti-semitic. Zionism is the most virile source of anti-Semitism, (again as shown in the essay), and Zionism benefits from the anti-Semitic charges. As you have shown not only do you not know what the real meaning is, you are blind to the fact that it's totally subjective meaning (thus meaning nothing).

v) their anti-semitism is worse because it's not the stupid silly anti-semitism such as "Jews kill babies and drink their blood", but intellectual anti-semitism which is ten times worse because the anti-semite is intelligent

It would be anti-Semitism if Israel was to equate into Jews. But again (as the essay has shown) that is simply not true. Also it would anti-Semitism, if the charges made are totally baseless, and overtly ignorant. I have yet to see anything but rhetoric’s.

vi) they are in fact religious extremists (their extremism is not reflected in violence but they are extremists none-the-less).


Again this is a subjective view on the situation, and thus holds no value. If you can prove extremism then I would believe you, but you cannot prove extremism.

 

iv) are, in fact, anti-semetic in a way


lol , give me a break ..... anti-semitic jews

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what´s next ? bush loves his country ? mayas fly to the venus ? simpsons are inbreed ?
those jews aren´t anti-semitic - they are anti israel / zionism me thinks when i look at this picture

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Thanks for proving that it's a Euro-centric machination
...
The non-existent meaning, ok

are the big words an attempt to cover your contentless reply?
who cares who "made up the word"? or where it was made up???
what the word is, is the description of the phoenomena of hate of Jews.
why are you being an idiot? stop using big words and just let it go

They cannot be anti-Semitic if their religion supports their position (as stated in nico's essay).
well gee, if nico's essay stated it...

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so what, you're coming up with your own definition now, goy boy?

the Talmud has a few lines about how Jews should wait for the Mashiakh (Messiah) before they return to Israel.
but:
a) the Talmud was written by different rabbis, not by God.
b) it was written long long long before the reality of the Holocaust, before they actually had the opportunity to make something hapen
c) there is a concept in Judaims that's called "Pikuakh Nefesh" (preservation of the soul) which means that you can overstep Jewish laws in order to save lives. i.e., if you haven't had anything to eat for 4 days and the only thing available is pork, eating pork is ok. or if someone is trying to stab you, if you fight him off and in the process you kill him, that would be ok.
so if the entire world hates you and has just finished killing 6 million of you, you'll do what you have to to survive.
this is also, i believe, in the Talmud

Zionism is the most virile source of anti-Semitism
Zionism is the result of anti-semitism.
Zionism, (i.e. Jews who want to triumph, or even worse: Jews who do triumph) seems to really upset people.... so i guess that makes people hate them more.. so in essense, you're right.
but a healthy dose of propaganda and spin from the BBC also contributes

Zionism benefits from the anti-Semitic charges
anti-semitism strengthens the unity of the Jews, and their need for a safe haven... basically what Zionism is mostly about.

As you have shown not only do you not know what the real meaning is,
i thought it was a "non-existent meaning" lol

you are blind to the fact that it's totally subjective meaning (thus meaning nothing).
hey, everything's subjective.
by the same token i could say that everything you're saying is subjective and thus means nothing.

It would be anti-Semitism if Israel was to equate into Jews
what's Israel? muslims? have you ever been to Israel? what the hell do you know about it? keep reading CNN, BBC and aljazeera

If you can prove extremism then I would believe you, but you cannot prove extremism.
extremism is in the eye of the beholder... and is therefore also subjective. by your logic extremism wouldn't even exist then, right?
well, compared to people who stone women to death, they're not that extreme...
but compared to mainstream Judaism and the majority of Jews, they're extreme.

 

are the big words an attempt to cover your contentless reply?

No, rather it's a cognitive reply to someone who doesn't understand what he is reading.

who cares who "made up the word"?

If it has no meaning, then it's useless. And I hate uselessness.

or where it was made up???

Do you believe in Cinderella?

what the word is, is the description of the phoenomena of hate of Jews.

LOL! No, no, no. Anti-Semitism, as I have said already is pretty much a term used almost exclusively to talk of European hatred of Jews. Not only is the term incorrect in it's semantic premise (being that Jews are Semitic), but it assuming that European Jewry is the only Jewry. The word itself in its application is incorrect, and cannot be taken seriously.

why are you being an idiot? stop using big words and just let it go

Sorry if you cannot understand, it is not of my concern. If you can't the heat man, don't start talking.

so what, you're coming up with your own definition now, goy boy?

Why are you being anti-gentile? Hypocrite.

a) the Talmud was written by different rabbis, not by God.

The Talmud was written by them, but don't forget the Talmud reformed Judaism into it's modern form, the Talmud has been said to have saved Judaism from extension. Thus to be Jewish (as in religious Jewish) one must follow the dictates of the Talmud.

b) it was written long long long before the reality of the Holocaust, before they actually had the opportunity to make something hapen

So? If one is Jewish he follows the commandments of Jewish law, they are God's law. Man's position is only temporary, and he is being taken care of by God. God does things for a reason, and if you are Jewish you must follow the basic commandments of God's law.

c) there is a concept in Judaims that's called "Pikuakh Nefesh" (preservation of the soul) which means that you can overstep Jewish laws in order to save lives.

Fine then, using that logic "Jews" should get out of Israel because they aren't living in peace, and they aren't saving any of their own lives or those of others. Also, Jews are safe in the western world today. There is no need for the state of Israel in today's modern western world. I support the immigration of Jews to the Levant if they want to live there, but the State of Israel is a imposition of Zionist will, not only on the Arabs, but on Judaism itself. Zionism is thus one of the 20th century’s greatest criminals.

this is also, i believe, in the Talmud

You are a religious Jew?

Zionism is the result of anti-Semitism.

Which is true, and now Zionism benefits greatly from it's implementation.

Zionism, (i.e. Jews who want to triumph, or even worse: Jews who do triumph) seems to really upset people.... so i guess that makes people hate them more.. so in essense, you're right.

Critical error Zionism does not = Jews. In order for you believe in Zionism you either have to be a atheist or breaking God's law. Herzl to Sharon are atheists, and they know that the greatest thing preventing the modern Zionist state from developing is the Torah and the Talmud telling real Jews to stay away.

but a healthy dose of propaganda and spin from the BBC also contributes

The only propaganda I see here is your rhetoric's.

anti-semitism strengthens the unity of the Jews, and their need for a safe haven... basically what Zionism is mostly about.

And as Herzl has indicated that Anti-Semitism must be supported and even advanced for the cause of Israel. If you are angry at the fact that Anti-Semitism (whatever it may mean) is on the rise, then blame the existence of Israel. People who know no better, blame Jews for Israel. Jews are the real victims of this crime.

As you have shown not only do you not know what the real meaning is,
i thought it was a "non-existent meaning" lol

Yes exactly you don't know that there is no meaning.

hey, everything's subjective.

Do you breathe? If so, then its truth. Not everything is subjective. Is Israel going against God's laws? Yes, and there are the quotes.

by the same token i could say that everything you're saying is subjective and thus means nothing.

Rhetoric's like that mean nothing. Please prove that I am wrong, like nico proved Zionism wrong.

what's Israel? muslims? have you ever been to Israel? what the hell do you know about it?

The premise of the Israeli state is the rejection of the Jewish faith. The only reason Israel exists is through the measures of atheists, and self-hating Jews.

extremism is in the eye of the beholder... and is therefore also subjective. by your logic extremism wouldn't even exist then, right?

No, but extremism can only be defined by the individual and thus cannot be imposed. Surely I think some things are extremist, but I cannot have any credibility by saying so.

but compared to mainstream Judaism and the majority of Jews, they're extreme

Again, this only a useless perception. Chances are that they follow the Torah more then most Jews, and thus the real extremists are the ones who don't following God's laws, and still claim to be Jewish. At least in my opinion.

 

The Talmud was written by them, but don't forget the Talmud reformed Judaism into it's modern form, the Talmud has been said to have saved Judaism from extension. Thus to be Jewish (as in religious Jewish) one must follow the dictates of the Talmud.
i'm sorry, are reforms only reserved for Christians?
tell me, how many reforms have there been in the Catholic Church?
and you still see people calling themselves Catholic although they're breaking many fundamental rules written centuries ago.
you sound like an ayatollah telling me i'm a kafir.

but don't forget the Talmud reformed Judaism into it's modern form
'modern'? tell me how old the Talmud is!

the Talmud has been said to have saved Judaism from extension
extension? you must mean 'extinction'
whether this subjective point is true is completely irrelevant

And as Herzl has indicated that Anti-Semitism must be supported and even advanced for the cause of Israel.
well, that's right.
if someone hates you, dont change yourself to appease him... use his hate to your advantage.
or is this concept forbidden for Jews?

Anti-Semitism is on the rise, then blame the existence of Israel
oh i know. as i said before. Jews who attempt to triumph, or worse - those who actually do, piss the world off greatly.

Also, Jews are safe in the western world today. There is no need for the state of Israel in today's modern western world
1) we can't afford the indifference, my friend.
2) oh yes there is a need. if any country decides to turn the Jew into a 3rd class citizen, or decides to riot and murder on their ass, there's IDF to bomb the shit out of that country. there's also the Jewish Agency which removes Jews (such as the Falash Mura from Ethiopia) and brings them in for a better life where there's running water and electricity)
3) why should there be a reason for Israel to exist? there's no need for Finland to exist.. but that doesn't mean it should be attacked or dismantled.

what's Israel? muslims? have you ever been to Israel? what the hell do you know about it?
----------
The premise of the Israeli state is the rejection of the Jewish faith. The only reason Israel exists is through the measures of atheists, and self-hating Jews.
so i was right, yes? all you know about Israel is thru reading all sorts of interesting sources... and talking to people on msg boards...

do tell me about the "real" Jewish faith. go on. and do tell me about reforms, how they're not aloud anywhere...
besides, i didn't realize you were the middleman between man and God. thank God we have you to give us his message

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and as far as self-hating Jews, it's quite the opposite. the self-haters are the Neturei Karta who say "we don't deserve to live in security and sovereignty" and then they rationalize it.

Rabbi Lubavitch, the leader of the Ashkenazi Khasid movement (z''l) (the equivalent of the Pope among Ashkenazi Jews) was a great supporter of Israel.

Is Israel going against God's laws? Yes
keep talking, mullah

Again, this only a useless perception. Chances are that they follow the Torah more then most Jews, and thus the real extremists are the ones who don't following God's laws, and still claim to be Jewish.
1) well if it's a useless perception, then why write your own if it's a perception?
2) again, when you're talking about mainstream Judaism, compared to that point of reference, those Neturei Karta people are the extremists.

 

if someone hates you, dont change yourself to appease him... use his hate to your advantage.

against your own people ?
crazy .....

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i'm sorry, are reforms only reserved for Christians?

No, but Judaism needed reforms at that moment in time, it was the Talmud that preserved the Jewish faith. Thus its importance cannot be denied; in this case you really must be a absolutist, either:

i) The Talmud is a religious book of guidance.
ii) Talmud is totally irrelevant.

tell me, how many reforms have there been in the Catholic Church?
and you still see people calling themselves Catholic although they're breaking many fundamental rules written centuries ago.

But the Catholic Church stays true to its faith, the Church isn't making up states. The Church accepts all those who want to convert, the Church has done bad things. But it has never forsaken God's word like Zionism has. In order to compare Zionism to the Church, the Church would have to do the following:

i) Name a state in which all Christians are to live.
ii) It is not a religion anymore; you are now part of the Christian race.
iii) And everyone must speak Latin.

you sound like an ayatollah telling me i'm a kafir.

Your inferior rhetoric's have no affect on me; rather they make you into a troll.

extension? you must mean 'extinction'

Sorry, at least one can spell "righteousness" correctly, you mis-spelt it three or two times, that is a semantic surrender.

whether this subjective point is true is completely irrelevant

No it is not, because the Talmud is a official book of the Jewish faith. If you were Jewish (which I have my doubts) you should know this. It's like saying to a Christian " well since the books of Matthew, Luke, john, are written by men. Thus you cannot follow it, and thus it is irrelevant". Thus the only deduction we can take from your position is, it's illogical, in a religious sense.

if someone hates you, dont change yourself to appease him... use his hate to your advantage.
or is this concept forbidden for Jews?

This is a concept that is deceiving and is disgusting. You are singing the praises of Israel saving the Jewish people supposedly. But if those Jews are living outside the atheist state of Israel, you support anti-Semitic actions done against them. You must then agree the holocaust the best PR coup in Zionist history. That's your logic, and Zionism.

1) we can't afford the indifference, my friend.

Indifference to what? Jews today are more intergraded then any other religious group.

2) oh yes there is a need. if any country decides to turn the Jew into a 3rd class citizen, or decides to riot and murder on their ass, there's IDF to bomb the shit out of that country. there's also the Jewish Agency which removes Jews (such as the Falash Mura from Ethiopia) and brings them in for a better life where there's running water and electricity)

Name me a western country that puts Jews as 3rd class citizens please? Again you see you do the critical err; you are equating immigration to the region with the state of Israel. Jews can move their, but that is not their land. Demographically, historically, religiously, or morally, this will escape you I am sure, due to overly subjective quoting, and the inevitable misenteruptation.

3) why should there be a reason for Israel to exist? there's no need for Finland to exist.. but that doesn't mean it should be attacked or dismantled.

Because Fins didn't steal, or expel anyone from that land. The only reason why Jews have a connection to the country is through their religion, and it forbids such immigration, and establishment of a state. Israel tries to be like Finland by being a secular state, that is based on a pseudo- racial, historical relation, and rejects the only reason why Jews have a claim on that land. Religion, so that's for the illogical comparison son...

so i was right, yes? all you know about Israel is thru reading all sorts of interesting sources... and talking to people on msg boards...

The Israel you are talking about (being the social fabric) is irrelevant, because I have no issues with Jews living in the region. The country of Israel is based on a lie, and has displaced the people who occupied, and occupy that land. I could care less if Israeli's were peaceniks or not, their state is based on a crime.

besides, i didn't realize you were the middleman between man and God. thank God we have you to give us his message

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I did nothing, the message was sent to the Jewish people from King Solomon, to the Talmudic period. All I did was reflect what is written, if you have issues with it go complain to your rabbi, not me.

and as far as self-hating Jews, it's quite the opposite. the self-haters are the Neturei Karta who say "we don't deserve to live in security and sovereignty" and then they rationalize it.

Again self-hating is when you reject what makes you what you are. They aren't rejecting their Judaism, quite the opposite they are following it, and they fighting for the word of God. The self-hating ones are the Zionists, who endorse anti-Semitism, and atheistic values, the ultimate goal to be a state among states, and essentially a gentile. Israel is not Judaism, and as long as you have that false impression you will forever within the radius of ignorance.

Rabbi Lubavitch, the leader of the Ashkenazi Khasid movement (z''l) (the equivalent of the Pope among Ashkenazi Jews) was a great supporter of Israel.

That's real great, doesn't negate the fact there is a counter to that, and that is basically a appeal to authority. Don't let others make arguments for you please.

keep talking, mullah

Why do you insist on being a troll? Are you so threatened by this that you have to resort to ridicule?


1) well if it's a useless perception, then why write your own if it's a perception?
2) again, when you're talking about mainstream Judaism, compared to that point of reference, those Neturei Karta people are the extremists.

I have suggestion for you troll, subjective quoting doesn't do you any favours:

Notice that you missed it trollish one.

 

Judaism needed reforms at that moment in time
and it needed reforms in another moment in time, because of new problems that arised.
and it had them.

Catholic Church stays true to its faith
anyone practicing anything reformed (changed) cannot, by definition, be true to the faith. (that's why the whole concept of religion is strange to me) but religions do get reformed. and guess what, there are still Catholics and Muslims and Jews who follow their reformed faiths

the Church isn't making up states
the Church officially recognizes the state of Israel. so does the rest of the world except the fundamentalist regimes of the Middle East

since the books of Matthew, Luke, john, are written by men
weren't these books written by saints? i.e. prophets?
if they weren't... well i won't critisize Christians and their beliefs.
at any rate, the Talmud was written by regular men who were the religious leaders of their times.

Because Fins didn't steal, or expel anyone from that land.
is that so.
read up on your history, my friend. Vikings were not the peace-loving people you think they were.
the winners of wars are not occupiers - they are countries.
almost every country in the world went thru displacement of peoples and war before being created.
but in Israel's case, i guess this concept doesn't apply eh?

But if those Jews are living outside the atheist state of Israel, you support anti-Semitic actions done against them

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what did i say that made you think that??
what i said was that hate against those in the Diaspora strengthens Zionist resolve and a need for a strong, independent Jewish state.

Indifference to what?
indifference to history repeating itself.
there's a saying, if a woman gets beat up by her husband once, it's his fault. if she gets beat up twice, it's her fault.
in this case, the woman has been beaten up about a thousand times.. it's time to leave the husband!

Jews today are more intergraded then any other religious group
maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
there is no shortage of hate towards them.
it's a subjective point of view.

Name me a western country that puts Jews as 3rd class citizens please?
if there is no such country it is because a) they all have been expelled or b) those countries are deterred by Israel or c) because the Jewish Agency smuggled them out.

Jews can move their, but that is not their land. Demographically, historically, religiously, or morally, this will escape you I am sure, due to overly subjective quoting, and the inevitable misenteruptation.
try not to commit the offences that you blame others of doing

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rejects the only reason why Jews have a claim on that land. Religion
it's just one of many reasons.
how about settling into an empty swamp-filled land, buying land legally from the broke arab farmers who were tired of the swamps?
to that, add the Holocaust and the need for what i've mentioned already, and plus the Arab neighbouring states' agression which caused the refugee problem in the 1st place (twice).
i'm sure that will escape you

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I could care less if Israeli's were peaceniks or not, their state is based on a crime
you bet it was based on a crime. it's called "arab agression" and "holocaust".
also, as i said, if buying the land legally and turning empty swampy land into fertile farmland is a crime, then yep. it's based on a crime.
otherwise, if you "couldn't care less if Israelis were peacenicks or not", that would make you an anti-Semite

I did nothing, the message was sent to the Jewish people from King Solomon, to the Talmudic period. All I did was reflect what is written, if you have issues with it go complain to your rabbi, not me
do you always talk out of your ass?
Judaism predated King Solomon
and the Talmud was written long after his time. what on earth kind of spin are you trying to create here???

Rabbi Lubavitch, the leader of the Ashkenazi Khasid movement (z''l) (the equivalent of the Pope among Ashkenazi Jews) was a great supporter of Israel.
-------
and that is basically a appeal to authority
you bet it is.
this guy is not just some mob shouting slogans.
he represents the entire Ashkenazi Khasid part of Judaism (except the Neturei Karta)... and he approves of Israel.
you do know what a Khasid is, don't you?

Why do you insist on being a troll
...
I have suggestion for you troll
...
trollish one
what is this? some magic word that's supposed to make my arguments go away?
it shows your desperation
jesus, you're pathetic

 

I'm still unclear on why you think Israel was an illegal land grab when it was created by the U.N.? What governing body would have to create it for you to consider it legitimate?

And you never did tell me what you got on your paper.

 

OTHEADP, you may want to change the country in your point.
As a Finn I put this stuff here and some links in case somebody intrested.
We dont consider us as heritage of Vikings, we are more like "shaman-tribe".

http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/uralians.html
-Mythology, Gods and stuff.
----------------------------------
"During the Viking Age (800-1050 AD) the Vikings' road to the East passed close by Finland and the Karelian Isthmus, along the Gulf of Finland and across Lake Ladoga to the great rivers of Russia en route to Byzantium and the Black Sea, or even as far as the Caspian Sea. It is ALMOST certain that SOME Finns also went along on these expeditions. There is evidence of this in graves at the Luistari burial ground in Eura, for example. It was at this time that Åland became culturally Swedish, which it has remained to the present day."
-This much I found about us as an Vikings.
http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/prehist8.html
---------------------------------
"The oldest relics ever found in southern Finland are of slightly later origin, dating perhaps from 7200 B.C. In those ancient times, there lived on the Finnish coast a simple people who made weapons of stone and bone, and who practiced hunting and fishing. Evidently, these earliest known inhabitants of Finland had arrived by land from eastern Europe."
-Origins, and pretty complety history in a nutshell.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/3818/EARLYFIN.HTM#origin
----------------------------------
-But we have our sins too...But a Vikings ? Maybe 1% or something...

"The Finns are sometimes pictured as weak victims of foreign coercion. This is not entirely true. The Finns were expanding tribes who extended their areas continuously by clearing of woods, and sometimes by colonization of rich soil far away, as in Karelia and along the Kemi and Tornio rivers. These areas weren't uninhabited, but in fact belonged to the Sámi, whom the Finns (pirkkalaiset /birkarlar) taxed most brutally."

-Its our Indians, Sámis own practically hole Lapland nowdays, one third of the country I quess, technically not, like every country we are ruled by people with money & -isms, we are little Roman Empire too, with peopple little over 5 million. But we save them in a way in the end in WW2 thou.
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq433.html
---------------------------------
-Psychology, language and other stuff for the end.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/kalevala/intro001.php
---------------------------------
Cheers.

 

and it needed reforms in another moment in time, because of new problems that arised.

Its reform was the Talmud; there have been no further reforms in the liturgy of the Torah. The Talmud’s reforms simply restated in stronger terms that Jews are not to go back into Israel. Now unless you want to include the New Testament as the third liturgy of the Jewish faith. Now if you do, Christians want you to go to Israel in droves! Why? Because not only are you doing the worst sin against God by going back he will kill all of you in a covenant little place, unless of course you convert. I guess the biggest "anti-Semite" is God. If of course you consider atheists, and pseudo-religious state like Israel, Jewish.

anyone practicing anything reformed (changed) cannot, by definition, be true to the faith

What has reformed? The Liturgy of the Church has remained unchanged since the times of Paul. The liturgy will not be reformed either, what has changed is merely the Churches tact, and interaction with the rest of the world, and those of the Christian faith. All it has done is modernize it's imagine, and changed its structure from the reformation. You on the other hand will not understand this. The liturgy, constant, the Church changing. Separate the two, they are not the same thing.

but religions do get reformed. and guess what, there are still Catholics and Muslims and Jews who follow their reformed faiths

Again all these faiths have not reformed their liturgies, except for the Jewish faith. The Talmud was a new interuptation that Jews follow. The Talmud merely re-iterated what was said in the Torah. Not to go back, unless there is another Jewish book. This is God's law.

the Church officially recognizes the state of Israel

So? This was done on a purely political, and PR basis. The Church has had over the centuries a anti-Jewish tinge, and in order to make it up to the "Jews" she decided to endorse the existence of Israel, and Palestine. This is not based on any religious merit.

so does the rest of the world except the fundamentalist regimes of the Middle East

Again, your rhetoric’s are not helping your cause, rather you sound like a dog in heat. I will ask you to keep overly idiotic comments as the aforementioned one to yourself, and it has not relevance to anything being said. Let's not get on tangents.

weren't these books written by saints? i.e. prophets?

To Catholics, yes, to Protestants, no. Subjective, point is they were men, and they were fallible.

the Talmud was written by regular men who were the religious leaders of their times.

Sadly, they are accepted by all Jews to be the reformed religious standard. They must follow these teachings, and since you seem not to be a Jew, you have no bearing on what is said by Jews. Also these men were some of the smartest of all time.

is that so.

It is and it’s going to be fun to make you look like a child.

Vikings were not the peace-loving people you think they were.

Sadly the Fins are not Vikings, they aren't even European.

the winners of wars are not occupiers - they are countries.

Fine then using that logic, then Iraqi's are British and Croats are Turkish.

almost every country in the world went thru displacement of peoples and war before being created.

The modern nation state was based on thousands of years of constants in those nations. For instance French have Gaullic, Frankish, and Roman influence. But the constant is that they were always on that land, and they were the sole owners of that land. Using your logic, Italians should invade France because it was once part of the Roman Empire. Does this sounds logical to you?

but in Israel's case, i guess this concept doesn't apply eh?

That's right it doesn't apply, simple why:

i) The idea of Israel is not Zionist it is Jewish.
ii) The Jewish faith forbids immigration or establishment of a Jewish state prior to a prescribed time.
iii) The original inhabitants of that land do not exist any longer, thus there is no connection (read the essay on that one).

what did i say that made you think that??

if someone hates you, dont change yourself to appease him... use his hate to your advantage.

In a modern Zionist sense this was exemplified by the holocaust, use anti-Semitism to your advancement, and hey even the Zionist God Herzl said:

what i said was that hate against those in the Diaspora strengthens Zionist resolve and a need for a strong, independent Jewish state.

Which in order to exist needs virulent "anti-Semitism" to exist. Zionism was small prior to WWII and the holocaust, as shown the Zionists loved working with the Nazi's and were pushing for anti-Semitism, because how are you going to get innocent, comfortable people living in Europe to a desert by not scaring them. That's Zionism.

indifference to history repeating itself.

History will repeat itself, I am confident in that. Sadly this time it really is your own fault. There will an anti-Israel tinge in the world, and there will be some bad things done. It's a eventuality, be it 100 years or 1000 years. It's of no relevance the state of Israel will not survive. It cannot, it based on lies, and the same things it was trying to get rid of *supposedly*

maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
there is no shortage of hate towards them.
it's a subjective point of view.

If you notice the new "anti-Semitism" is geared towards Israel, and that is then sadly translated into anti-Jewish activities. Those haters do not realize that by doing what they are doing they are helping Israel like nothing else.

if there is no such country it is because a) they all have been expelled or b) those countries are deterred by Israel or c) because the Jewish Agency smuggled them out.

There are 14 million Jews in the world, 4 million in Israel. The vast majority being from Russia, or Africa. Western Jews preferr to stay where they are. For good reason.

try not to commit the offences that you blame others of doing

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Again, rhetoric’s they are baseless and useless. Explain this.

how about settling into an empty swamp-filled land, buying land legally from the broke arab farmers who were tired of the swamps?

Empty? I don't think so, as nico's essay in red I believe showed. The land was anything but empty.

1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000.
(meanwhile from stats from the Stats I have in 1820 there were 332,000 people.Empty?)

1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians.

1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%).

1936: Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now

1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%)

1947: UN takes control over Palestine.
— November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%).

http://i-cias.com/e.o/atlas/index.htm

Empty? nah, only a idiot would believe that.

add the Holocaust and the need for what i've mentioned already, and plus the Arab neighbouring states' agression which caused the refugee problem in the 1st place (twice).

The holocaust was a bad thing, and I do not disagree with Jews moving to the region. But the holocaust sadly is not an excuse to expel 750,000 people off of their land, and commit atrocities against them to do it. The expellations began in 1947, a full year before independence, Irgun and the gang really helping the cleansing. One wrong does not excuse another wrong being done.

i'm sure that will escape you

I wish I were a Finnish Viking...

you bet it was based on a crime. it's called "arab agression" and "holocaust".

The only aggression was the forced implementation of a state on over 1 million inhabitants of that land. Arabs aren't only Muslim you know, there were Christian, and Jewish Arabs who suffered as well. The Arab aggression came afterward, and for good reason.

also, as i said, if buying the land legally and turning empty swampy land into fertile farmland is a crime, then yep. it's based on a crime.

You still believe in those lies of the most grandiose proportions, you are a lost cause.

otherwise, if you "couldn't care less if Israelis were peacenicks or not", that would make you an anti-Semite

LOL! you are so sad, this just typifies the sad attempts of those who have no arguments to label one a anti-Semite, to try (in vain) to stifle debate. Israeli's are not Jewish by definition.

do you always talk out of your ass?

I would much rather to that, then be in your position as of this moment in time.

Judaism predated King Solomon
and the Talmud was written long after his time. what on earth kind of spin are you trying to create here???

Logics in that statement? What the hell are you even trying to communicate?

you bet it is.

So you have no issues with basing your arguments on inferior debating skills? Thus making you the automatic loser?

this guy is not just some mob shouting slogans.
he represents the entire Ashkenazi Khasid part of Judaism (except the Neturei Karta)... and he approves of Israel.
you do know what a Khasid is, don't you?

It irrelevant if he represents a "majority" of Northern European Jewry, it is still based on a relativist fallacy, and one of popularity. So try again sport, you'll get it one day.

what is this? some magic word that's supposed to make my arguments go away?

No rather it is a reflection of your current debating methods. What I am trying to do is shine a mirror in your face, so you can stop the rhetoric babbling and get to the point.

jesus, you're pathetic

That means a lot coming from you...FINNISH VIKINGS HERE WE COME, can the Hungarians tag along too... LOL!