A Nightmare Scenario for Homosexuals

Do you mean to say that you believe that over a third of homosexuals in general are involved in some sort of cultish anti-gay therapy sort of program, and that nearly a third of the homosexual population will be converted to heterosexuality? Again you seem to have an amazing way with numbers, could I ask you for any sort of source that might make you think that such programs are so wide-spread or that any of them even have any real measurable success rate that they record and report honestly?

 

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ok, that's fair enough. The majority of all americans are pro-abortion aren't they? Are gay people more conservative on this issue?

 

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How do you justify protecting one form of humanity over another with a selective anti-abortion law? What's to stop someone from getting the DNA test and then running off to Canada to get the abortion?

 

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Just to clarify, is this statement based on the premise that U.K. law (of which I and many Americans have very limited knowledge when it comes to specifics) allows abortion only when some serious defect is found in the child?

In the US there doesn't really need to be any reasoning behind an abortion, most states have laws which guarantee a woman's right without need to justify her decision to anyone, so abortion based on just about any reason would work.

 

I'm not necessarily certain of the idea that most Americans are pro-abortion, I haven't seen any recent polls to that effect, nor does public opinion carry that much sway on the issue in the US. Also I do not particularly feel that "pro-abortion" is a label which accurately describes those who do not feel abortion should be made illegal. No one celebrates abortions, it seems to me that most who take the pro-choice stance are simply against "big government" stepping in to regulate a woman's reproductive decisions.

 

It's a case of the State of Hawaii vs. Mystech. Here, read my thread on the subject. I've done a lot more research than you have:

Chater 5 P2

Check out items 4 and 5 for a better understanding. The scientific references and studies should keep you busy for a while. BTW, Hawaii is quite liberal in their views, if you don't know already.

PS, be sure to read the footnotes to the statements made. They are well researched.

 

Um okay, so one person on this comission (legislator, judge? who's to say, but I'm guessing it wasn't the case of Hawaii vs. Mystech, as I've never yet been there to be prosecuted by the state) disagreed with some others and went on a tyrade full of misinformation and bad research data typical of right-wing fundies. . . and? I'm not exactly sure how you take this to be particularly profound or credible, he cites political organizations like NARTH rather than actual medical associations and this wasn't even the commissions official opinion - this is the stuff they rejected as chaff. That's some astounding research there, Sherlock.

What's more is that this doesn't even act as an affirmative answer to the questions I asked you - I wondered if you thought fully a third of the homosexual population at large was involved in such programs, but apparently we're just talking about a third of homosexuals who are so self-loathing that they'd seek out these obscure religious programs and enroll in them, and even among those individuals they report less than a 1/3rd success rate. Not particularly encouraging numbers even if we're to assume that they're completely honest which, when such organizations are involved, they rarely seed to be.

I ask for hard numbers, and you throw me more political rhetoric.

 

Hmm.. I clearly haven't thought this through yet, have I? Woody, you're a bigot but a cunning one (Mystech: UK law follows the same premise as US laws on this). Maybe I'll read the thread. One thing first though: no-one, but no-one, but no-one, but no-one... is pro-abortion. Can we just clear that up?

 

Oh, in that case I really don't see legal protection of "homosexual fetuses" (I find the phrase funny - as such beings aren't sexual, hell some don't have gender depending on stage of development) from abortion as being very likely. US laws simply aren't set up to allow an exclusion like that very easily, nor should they be, really. Tragic, ultimately, but then abortion isn't ever a very pretty topic to begin with.

Right on, a very valid point, I think. Like I said, no one is out there celebrating when these unfortunate things happen, but there are those who oppose the government's right to make these decisions for individual women, and that is certainly fair grounds for objection.

 

Mystech said:

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. That's some astounding willful ignorance on your part Sherlock.

You need to look at the footnotes. A lot of their information came from studies prior to politicizing the gay movement. There were no gay activists nor was there a NARTH. There is no way you could have researchedt the scientific evidence provided, no way in hell.

In the commission 5 were pro-gay marriage and 2 were opposed. Science was not the basis for the final, expected decision. That was explained. Science was in the minority, and it is the chaff as you say. It was ignored just like you are doing with it. I suppose science just isn't your bag.

Here's an interesting tidbit for you from the Zur Institute:

The minority opinion here was chaff as you say. I guess what 3,810 pratictioners had to say is just irrelevant, as you say.

So tell me Mystech, what do you think about therapy by coup d'etat? It has your vote, doesn't it?

 

No mention of domestic violence, child abuse, the 2 women a week murdered by their partners. I'd argue that children are better reared in a stable 'alternative' relationship than in an unstable male-female one. The latter are far more common than the painters of this rosy picture are prepared to admit.

 

you could assume, however I have no religious anything.

you could have fooled me and the population, this is the forth thread I believe you've posted on the subject.
anyhow many homosexuals in the past more so, than now got married to hide the homosexuality, being married and having kids is irrelevent, go on admit it your gay, come on out of the closet.

bite your tongue, lier!, you hate them with a vengence, because you are the same way, and you hate that above all.( methinks he doth protest to much).

and why would they want too.

no it's you thats sad as you wont admit your real feelings, now that is sad, with a capital S.

 

You still at it Woody?

Abortion is one of those issues. I personally understand both sides of the argument. The one I generally find I argue from a position of bias is the anti-abortion stance. Having lost a child, I really did find myself angry at those that would willingly terminate - but this is my bias, and not really how we should debate, indeed it's even harder to given that you and I are not women, and are not in a position where, for whatever reason, a child isn't right for us.

I would say that it all depends on stage of development. Are we talking human life after 1 week? Certainly not. I had my appendix out when I didn't really need to, and that was far more than any 100 cell blastocyst is - and yet I don't see anyone whining that I'm being unfair to my appendix.

At 5 weeks the fetus looks like a prawn and is just over 2mm long. Is it ok for a women to end it there? Personally I would say yes, and I have yet to hear a really good argument against it.

I would also condone, or at least understand, why some people would terminate a fetus that they knew was going to end up mentally handicapped, etc. When talking about what's fair and what isn't, I don't consider it fair to force, what is at this moment just a fetus, an eventual life of no life.

As for homosexuals - I have never seen anyone get so upset about what another man does with his willy. And it's simply laughable given that your only justification is because it says so on an old bit of papyrus.

 

What is this gibberish you're spouting out? There is no appropriate response for a sock-puppet troll like you, therefore I put you onthe ignore list. goodybye forever.

 

As a homo myself I had to check the 1st choice. Otherwise it restricts abortion which should not happen.

 

I'm sorry you and yours lost your child. My wife and I had the same struggle, and that was a trying time in our marriage.

As for the papyrus I believe in, it says I'm not supposed to abort a child -- period. As I said before in the opener, I don't think the God I serve will give me anymore than I can handle. Hence, I take what I get and learn to live with it.

 

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.. I'm still at a loss as to the relevance or worth of an old papyrus.

Please, provide a decent argument, (or any argument because your last response certainly wasn't one), as to why women should not be allowed to have abortions.

 

Why did God tell people to kill babies in the bible?

 

Forget about Woody.

This is not an abortion issue.
I suspect that anybody so opposed to having a gay child will opt for IVF and the embryos will be screened prior to implantation. No abortion required. There are clinics who offer such prescreening for a variety of conditions and it has already been used to select for gender.
It's the rich who push this technology forward as ever.
Dee Cee

 

Because their parents the Cainnanites worshipped Moloch and sacrificed their own children to this pagan god. It seems as it were they cooked them in the fire. But that's way way back in the OT.

Jer 32:25

Lev 18:21

2 Kings 23:10

S/G you're right, they shouldn't have killed any of those cainanites or their babies, because they were already doing a pretty good job of it themselves. Yeah, Yahweh was wrong -- the party pooper. Think about it: It would give baby-back ribs a new meaning on the barbecue menu. How do ya like your babies? How about cainanite-cut? Slurp Slurp? YUM YUM get your young and tenders at Moloch's barbecue.

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Just look for the Bull with the fire down under:

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How about those oven doors -- pretty nifty. Better than a pot belly stove! SG, you're right -- How much better off we would be if the Israelites disobeyed Yahweh! Just look at what we're missing!

Ya know SG, I really love shellfish and barbecue pork, but I think I'll pass on barbecue babies.