Abortion punishment.???

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by cluelusshusbund, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    For those who woud like for some... or all abortions to be aganst the law... do you thank that the women who get those illegal abortions shoud be punished... an if so what woud you like for the punishment to be.???

    All ponts of view on this issue are welcome.!!!
     
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  3. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Although it's by no means clear when it narrows down to individuals, we might tentatively assume from declarations like this (Why the States Did Not Prosecute Women for Abortion Before Roe v. Wade) that the secular faction of pro-lifers largely dismisses the idea of punishing a woman for abortion (i.e., instead classifying her as a second victim).

    As for the religious segment:

    In Islamic countries where abortion raises concerns at all, it seems to be matter of paying "blood money" (Diyah). The mother arguably only pays if she alone (or with the father) deliberately caused the abortion.

    In Catholic tradition, the response is supposed to be automatic excommunication, though there are mitigating conditions.

    Unlike the rich and complicated history of abortion discourse with regard to the Catholic Church, Protestants are relatively new to the abortion issue. Enthusiasm about such developing more from political movement effects and pseudo-scholarly arguments like Francis Schaeffer's, than from ministerial and evangelical writers of the deeper past who touched upon the subject and were divided in their opinions. As a result, the reasons and proposed penalties of Protestants can lack an underlying coherence overall, and thereby can randomly range from slap on the wrist suggestions to extremes like the death penalty.

    Needless to say, the Bible itself is often contended to have little to say about abortion, and similarly with the Islamic hadith literature apparently limited to the Diyah stuff.
     
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  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Ther used to be som people around here who considered abortion to be murder... which woud surly necessitate some sort of punishment ... but i guess they moved on... was lyin or changed ther mind.!!!
     
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  7. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    It's a logical problem that they don't want to deal with.
     
  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    When murder becomes illegal, what should the punishment be? There are many considerations in each case, but I think intent should be an important factor.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I have an idea: Try not being worse than useless. Try being something other than a detriment to our community.

    You know, it's funny, the line from the administration when trolls are going after women in a thread about how to deal with abortion law is that we shouldn't post those topics if we don't want the trolls. When it's trolls going after women in their own thread about what's wrong with women, the line from upstairs is to lay off the guys who can't deal with women.

    I mention this because your stupid post is a perfect example of the problem: When it comes to the everyday politics, you're useless. When it comes to being useful↗ the critics mysteriously learn how to shut their damn mouths.

    Start making sense. If you've something to say, make it actually worth something. Don't just go off about insultingly stupid bullshit for the sake of being insulting.

    This isn't rocket science. Think of it this way, Bowser: There are a bunch of people who I might call bigots who whine and bawl about feeling left behind. They just elected an incompetent president and can't think for themselves long enough to figure out whether to be offended by his (ahem!) "betrayal" that isn't really a betrayal provided you paid attention to what he was and wasn't saying in the first place, or even decide if what they said they wanted is what they really want―or if they even ever said that's what they wanted.

    And for the faction your argument covers, there is a reason they feel left behind: They're too damn stupid to keep up.

    It's telling. A man says what women should do, so we ask what men should do, and suddenly men have nothing to say. What about punishing women?

    Well, you've just made the point. Any excuse to punish a woman ... just as soon as you invent one.

    Think about it for a minute. Trying to facilitate discussion by insisting on your own ignorance is not exactly creative. It's more like desperate. A lot of us, to say the least, figured out the most part of the problem with this aspect when parents and preachers and classroom teachers tried it on us once upon a misty watercolored memory.
     
  10. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    @ Bowser

    So do you thank abortion is murder... an if so what shoud the punishment be.???
     
  12. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Oh Bowser, I bet even you can get this one!

    One of these things is not like the others - can you pick it out?

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  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose it depends on when you define it as human, right? Also, does the wart on your nose have the same potential as that clump of cells in the picture? Yes, I get it.
     
  14. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I will answer your question with another question: What's the value of human life, in your mind? More so, what is the value of innocent life?
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    So there's two, three, and four. Hey, here's an idea: How about an on-topic post?
     
  16. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, what punishment would we dish out to a parent who intentionally kills their child?

    I apologize if I left the toilet seat up again
     
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  17. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    This child?

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  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    That was you at one point in your life. Are you disappointed that they let you live?
     
  19. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    No, not at all. Also unfortunate that forum rules prevent me me from saying that I am disappointed that they let you live.

    Aside from that, would you please address a straight up question? Somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of all conceptions end in miscarriages - what to do about those?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  20. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    If for no better reason than reminding you that life has value.

    What can you do about it? A woman's body rejecting the child is not an intentional act by the woman or her health provider. If you fall down the stairs and break your neck tomorrow, it's nobody's fault unless someone intentionally pushed you.
     
  21. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Aaaah... Manslaughter - that carries what? A year or so of incarceration?
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I am pretty sure that a good lawyer can make a case that the woman's negligence resulted in the death. Say, someone saw her have a glass of wine, or saw her fall off a ladder changing a light bulb, or did too much jogging during her pregnancy. So - manslaughter, by the legal definition.

    Where do we build all the jails?
     
  23. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    there might be a case there should a prosecutor want to pursue the matter. If Randwolf had fallen down the stairs because of another person's negligence, would that not be a case for investigation?
     

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