that's not a good argument for being pro-choice. babies can be removed from the womb sooner. some have survived as early as 7 months. others don't survive after their full 9 months and natural birth. i think you could even take a baby out at 5 months and keep it on life support for the rest of its development. if you don't think that counts than why do we sometimes have to keep 9 month+ babies on life support? there's no exact cutoff day. it varies by person. even after birth it is still completely dependent. it can't do anything for itself. it still needs to feed off of its mother for nutrients.
the next thing you'll be saying to couples who want a family is dont make babies as you killing 99% of the sperm It is a woman right to have control over her body not your's or the states.
good point farenheit, each time you have sex, all but one of the billions of sperm are wasted. MURDERERS!!!!!
I am a guy but that does not mean that I should not try to protect unborn children just because you were issued a womb and not me does not impair my ethics. I a m all in favor of contraception that does not include murder or encourage the dehumanization of man that I believe is already occurring at far to fast a rate. By the way, the reason that you are supposed to take your brothers wife in the bible is so that she has someone to take care of her because it was very difficult for women who were not married in those times. He was trying to avoid his duty of giving her a child something about inheritances. You might say that he was trying to avoid splitting heirs. Ha ha!
Or you might say that it was difficult in women in those times because the Israelites were a repressive patriarchy, and to repeat, taking the Bible seriously is a waste of time, energy, money, and basic human dignity. I mean, seriously ... why are Christians so opposed to abortion, when they worship a guy who killed his only son? And before you start spouting on off the nature of Christ's sacrifice ... here's another question ... what's the difference between an abortion, and God killing the son of David and Bathsheba? 13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD ." Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, [1] the son born to you will die." 15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill. ... 18 On the seventh day the child died. Samuel 2:13-15, 18
Mod Hat - Topic relevance Having just cleaned up the spew on this page of the topic, let me simply advise that any further such outbursts will see the topic closed or moved to the Cesspool. Please give your fellow posters some consideration here insofar as it seems that some of them would like to have a discussion about abortion. Thank you.
I have to stick up for my wife's point of view again. Men come up with the most clever, inventive ways to justify having an opinion on abortion and to justify forcing their opinion to overrule that of any woman who has the bad luck to be carrying a fetus spawned from their sperm. As for the "dehumanization of man"? The millions of women in the USA alone who are trapped by unwanted pregnancies that some man (preacher, politician, father, sex partner) pressured them into not ending and who end up with wounded souls and damaged lives because of it -- THAT is dehumanization. Men having a precocious little philosophical discussion with their own ego is NOT in the same category as a woman who is suddenly unable to finish her education, advance her career, or live her life free of an unwanted dependent. And it is NOWHERE near even the same universe as being the product of one of these unholy conceptions, spending your entire life being the unwanted, resented child who got in your mother's way because your goddamned may-he-rot-in-hell "father" said don't worry honey I'll help you raise the kid. I repeat. All of us men should just shut the fuck up and leave this issue to the women. It's their life, it's their problem. We have not earned the right to try to influence them because we historically have NEVER delivered on our promises to them. They have no cause to respect us regarding something this important.
But the issue they are trying to make is one of killing a child. It doesn't really matter if you are the parent or not. If a woman were going to kill her 8 year old, would you have no right to stop her because you are a man and not responsible for it? I don't believe that a fetus should be treated as a human being... but your statement is also wrong.
girl power persol abortion is a womans right the only time has anything to do with it is when he plants his seed it ends there it all down to the woman
I'm trying to resist the temptation to violate my wife's rule and be struck down by one of the goddesses. Just allow me to present the sentences in your posting in a different sequence. Perhaps you will find the same inconsistency of logic that I did. Given your very own reasoning, does the answer to the question you pose have any bearing upon the question under discussion?
Actually yes. They DO believe that the fetus is a child. Therefore, it logically follows that they should say something about it to prevent it's murder. It matters not if you are a man or a woman... you'll still try to prevent a child from being killed. You can't attack his right to have an opinion on abortion unless you also think that he shouldn't try to save a childs life. It matters not that we don't think a fetus is actually a child... he does and his statement is therefore consistent. Murder of children by their mothers is not something where you "leave [the] issue to the women". In summary: The whole issue is based around if fetuses are children or not. Men have as much right to stop a child from being killed as a woman. Based on this, it isn't a "women only" area.
That has always been my position I see no difference between the fetus, an eight year old child, a thirty year old man and an eighty year old Alzheimer’s patient. They are all deserving of the same basic human rights in my opinion and I do not have the right to terminate any one of their lives without an extremely good reason. People make stupid decisions all the time and if they make the decision that results in a child then they need to live up to the consequences of their actions.
But I think the problem is that most people (me included) do not consider a single cell to be human... or a fetus for that matter. How do you draw the line of when a fetus is 'human'? Ah, but the decision not to have an abortion results in a child.
i generally disagree with the old line that this is strictly a women's [choice]. the fetus is just as much a man's as it is a woman's. the main problem is that men seem to leave the women they impregnate. and in such cases, i would assert that the woman may do what she pleases with the fetus or "potential human" or what have you. fetuses are parasites!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! anyhow, as for the legality of it, abortion should most certainly not be banned. there is already too great a stigma about this issue. and there ought to be clinics, places where people can go, because the alternative is coat hangers.
There should be better alternatives than murder to insure the safety of these children. I believe that men who abandon their responsibility towards their children should have their assets seized and sold like they were drug dealers because they are worse their incomes should be garnished at least twice the average rate of child support. I feel that the government should subsidize collection agencies to insure that there are private companies out there trying to target these deadbeats. I think that any civilized country should be able to come up with a solution to this problem that does not include the murder of children. I believe that up until the point that a sperm unites with an egg they are just that a sperm and an egg. When they unite they are a living organism this organism is not a dog it is human being. You can argue that it is not a human being but what species is it?
it is not really a human. the dna within the cell is that of a human, but the cell itself is not specialized. it could become a neuron or a myoblast or skin or hair. none of these by themselves can be described as a human. i would think the point at which many would say the clump of cells becomes a person is the point at which it gains awareness. however, i would still assert that i am nothing but a rather extensive and complex clump of cells. :m:
Ever heard of accidents? They are if you dont want them there. If the women knows that the man isnt going to hang around its up to her to decide if she still wants the kid, i think they should leave and never come back if they dont want to be involved, its no good bringing up a kid you dont want, likewise if she doesnt want the kid and he does he should be able to look after it on his own, i dont think abortions great it can tear people apart(when one person wants the kid and the other doesnt), sometimes its best if nobody wants the kid.
