Artic Ice melt breaks Records!

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by aaqucnaona, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

    As is well known by now, the artic ice has got one of the shortest ends of the global warming stick. But this is much worse than anything I could have thought of. I have closely followed global warming on youtube and saw BBC's The Frozen planet and I knew it was bad, what with the darker ocean and more open areas for oil wells in the artic creating a vicious cycle; not to mention feeling those effects myself with the recent droughts and heat waves, but I didnt expect it to be this bad. At this point when we need to be solving the issue, there are many that dont think there is even an issue. *Sigh* Btw, even thought it is affected the least, the antarctic is not exempt from trouble either.

    Sources and further reading -

    News video-

    News Reports-



    Recent documentary-

    Further reading-
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  3. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    The changes happening in the north Yukon were first brought to the attention of the Yukon Fish and Wildlife Management Board in 1989 if my memory serves. The elders of Old Crow were concerned by the observation that the muskrat swamps were drying up, the rivers and waterways were not freezing as early in the fall and the Porcupine Caribou herd was changing it's traditional migration route. They are people who live largely off the land and these changes were very seriously affecting them for most of their food and livelihood comes directly from nature.

    The people of traditional knowledge observed rapid and dramatic change that their oral history had never encountered before and they came to ask the scientists if they knew why this was happening and science, at that time, had no ready answers. In fact, they were not monitoring the north as closely as the people who lived there.

    Global weather change and technological change both taking place at a feverish pace.

    It is most disconcerting, for a fact.
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  5. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Yeah, I hate threads like these. They scare the hell out of me.
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    I've stated this multiple times over, the reason for the melting I would assume to be down to Radiology.

    What would be really handy is if someone more astute at the mathematics could piece together the data to prove/disprove the hypothesis that the worlds usage of Radio-Telecommunications equipment is what is being absorbed by the carbon in our atmosphere. Mathematically it should be possible to convert the energy output of mobile phones, the network antenna's and microwave node connections to identify what the calorific value is of the dielectric energy absorption in our atmosphere.

    What should also be considered is that one of the old methods of bouncing radio waves off the ionosphere for long distance communication can also potentially cause certain points on the globe to be more radiologically enriched. I would pose that at the poles, you have not just the bounce down from transmission bouncing off the ionosphere, but also the reflection up from the icecaps. If the icecaps contain carbon from volcanic ash or forest fires, it also allows dielectric energy absorption within the ice itself causing the ice crystal structures within the ice to weaken and segments of ice to break away from the cap.

    It should even be proven that the depth that the permafrost penetrates to has retreated, if of course the assumption is correct.
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    That energy absorption is many orders of magnitude less than the solar heating, so not likely to be of any importance to Global heating - probably two or more orders of magnitude less that energy released by fossil fuel combustion. Less than tidal dissipation heating too I would guess, and possible about the same as energy dissipated in car & truck breaks.

    What fraction of electric power do you think ends up in radio & TV & micowaves in the air? - I´m sure that just losses in power transmission lines do more heating of the air than if none of the RF escaped the Earth, but most of the shorter than 10 meter wave length power does escape earth.
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member


    Area of the surface of the earth: 5.1x10^14 sq m
    CO2 forcing - 1.6 to 2.4 watts/sq m
    Total heating caused by increased CO2 (lower limit) - 8x10^14 watts

    Total number of cellphones on the planet - 7 billion
    Total power assuming that every single cellphone on the planet is on a call continuously - 7x10^9 watts

    So five orders of magnitude difference. And that's making incredibly over-optimistic assumptions on cellphone usage.
  10. Dinner Registered Member

    I wonder what the effects this melt will have in the future.

    One thing I am concerned about with regards the Arctic ice the methane stored in hydrates on the sea floor in the Arctic and that the retreat of the Arctic ice is increasing the chances of that methane being released which in turn could cause runaway global warming the instant it is released.
  11. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

    Check out the 2 links under Effects [in the OP].
  12. X-Man2 We're under no illusions. Registered Senior Member

    Between Global Dimming and Global Warming we are pretty much screwed.Its catch 22 now and at this time I dont have any hope for Mankind.I enjoyed the BBC 5 part Global Dimming You Tube series.Part 1 below,you will see 2-5 on the right side of You Tube page.

    I was kinda daydreaming wondering what the next inhabitants will be and look like on the Earth far in the future.You know after this great extinction.Hope they have a better run than us!

  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Dinner (Post 7) was concerned about the CH4 hydrates in the warming arctic. Your link focus on sea coral, but even if they all die, mankind would be little effected.
    Dinner is correct to be concern as mechanism described here: (And very many other posts, way back as far as in 2006. Search term "hydrates" and posts by Billy T.)
    Could, but may not, make ALL life forms extinct on the hot, sterile planet, once called Earth.

    Aliens wanting to live in solar system at some very distant time would find Mars much more attractive as Earth would require >1000 times more energy expended in "Terra Forming" to make it habitual.

    Me too. Watched 4 of the 5 (skipped 3, but 4 had lot of 1 repeated in it so see 3 instead if only viewing 4 of 5)

    IMHO, it is very important to get global dimming better known, as it is what is keeping the global warming to be much less. Thus, policies like forcing coal-fired power plants to have electro-static participators or close and perhaps even replacing gasoline cars with with electric ones may be a mistake!

    Fortunately it seems possible to me to have some soot released by high altitude air planes. Perhaps at least not have quite full combustion of their fuel - microscopic carbon dust being released.
    Unfortunately all efforts related to particle release are to decrease it. Three cheers for the diesel bus !! !! !! but what is really needed is the high altitude diesel airplane! (Get rid of jet, diesel-powered prop planes are the future!)
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2012

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