Atheist Realism?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ronan, May 12, 2008.

  1. ronan Only Consciousness Exists Registered Senior Member

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    I would like to know the belief of atheists on what consitute reality
    what is reality for them?

    Then I want to challenge their belief. (EDIT: not really what I want a the end itself, in fact I want to see if it differs from my view and other theist views, challenging is still part of my job if I feel it the view inconsistent)

    So everybody is invited but it would be better first to listen carefully to what the atheists have to say.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2008
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  3. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    why not ask everyone - then as a starting point you can see the similarities between the way atheists and theists, deists, pantheists etc view reality

    One stumbling block that you have given yourself, is that you have already stated that you want to challenge their beleif - so you've clearly already made up your mind on what atheists think, and that it's wrong before you've even had an answer - in that respect, you may as well just go straight ahead and challenge it before anyone gives an answer - as you're not going to listen are you

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    Are you SAM in disguise?
     
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  5. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    Well i can't speak for anyone else, but not believing in god qualifies me as an athiest. i think organisms are equipped with the ability to experience sensations and lead meaningful lives, and that because i can't explain how the universe was created doesn't mean that it had to be god. I wouldn't mind having a religion, it'd be nice to believe that to be happy all i had to do was what a book told me to.

    I've heard some religious people saying 'isn't it worth the risk of getting into heaven? why don't u just come to church?'. I don't like God's abandoning of everyone to hell, for the sake of them choosing their own life, when he was the one who gave them free will. its like pulling a trigger then not taking responsibility for the bullet. What right does lucifer have to torment our eternal souls? why has god given him such power? what crime deserves eternal damnation?

    just wanting to point out athiests don't really have gatherings, scriptures etc. yet we're seen as the opposite side to religion, and as such have to compete with your collection of works, clergy etc.. i'm not trying to make a point of my athiesm, i just think religion is a crock of shit. am currently studying religion at uni, so call my opinion foolish but not uneducated.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Why are you studying "a crock of shit"?
     
  8. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    just checking it out, thought it'd be useful knowing about something people take seriously. you learn a lot about society, a little about history.
     
  9. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    ronan,

    There is no incentive to respond then since you are determined to assert they are wrong whatever they say. You are clearly not interested in what they might say but merely want to exort your own, apparently narrow minded, agenda.

    How about you begin by describing what you think is reality and we can contrast that with potential alternatives.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Every graduate student who stands up to defend a thesis knows its going to be challenged. To fear your ideas being challenged is contrary to rational discourse.
     
  11. kenworth dude...**** it,lets go bowling Registered Senior Member

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    reality for me is the information i get from my senses
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not an atheist but I'd like to put forth my notions of reality.

    Reality to me is inference. Perception is data, my senses and experience are the tools I use to interpret the data. The result is reality, my inference of the data accessible to my senses and interpreted by my knowledge and experience.
     
  13. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    SAM,

    Unless it is correct and they have done their work fully. But that scenerio is one of a teacher/student relationship where critique is expected. If the teachers are honest they will also impartially praise good work. There is no such inplication here only open hostility to anything that is said.

    It is not an issue of fear but an exercise in pointlessness when the examiner has asserted you are wrong before you begin. I see no rational discourse in such an approach.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    We usually present our thesis to the department and anyone can challenge or question an idea. That said, if you are unable to defend your idea for fear of hostility, thats another, personal issue. One does not need to convince an ally as much as one needs to convince an opponent.
     
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know what reality is, I don't think any of us experience it.
     
  16. ronan Only Consciousness Exists Registered Senior Member

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    Ok good starting point, I would just ask: are you (as the "I" who get information from your sense) part of reality?

    synthesizer-patel, I am sorry to appeared so rude, I am not here for fighting but for having fun. as SAM said, do not be afraid of your belief

    codanblad, why are you so upset? The debate not even started. and please give only your realism first, then you can attack the attack given on your realism.

    cris, I have other threads to express my opinion, I created this thread especially for the atheist to express their view of what is reality. please feel free to express your view.

    Spidergoat, do you want to say that we do not know reality because of a present lack of knowledge or because of an impossibility to know the reality?
     
  17. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    We can only experience reality indirectly. Knowledge isn't reality, it's a model, which will always be incomplete. Even if we discover all the physical laws and symmetries, all the manifestations of them are infinite. There is no self that experiences reality, even indirectly. The self is a construct of the mind, an illusion.
     
  18. ronan Only Consciousness Exists Registered Senior Member

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    Spidergoat, are you a theist?
    If not , can you understand and agree with the belief of a theist that consider that god=reality (as you described it) ?
     
  19. Myles Registered Senior Member

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    I've got a model of a toothache and it really feels as if it belongs to me. I know I am an illusion but I sure feel real.
     
  20. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    Apology accepted - but I wasn't accusing you of being rude - just pointing out that by telling us that you had already prejudged what your response was going to be, it made asking the question pointless.

    A better way to approach it would have been in a debate format - i.e "I beleive atheists consider reality in XYZ way - and I can prove it with ABC, they are wrong because 123 - discuss"

    just a suggestion like

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  21. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    I'm an atheist. I think the application of that term is problematic, it implies a sentience, a plan, where none seems to exist. Any term would be a reduction, a symbol, for the complexity of reality. Why do we need a term. "The universe" works well enough. There is too much cultural baggage associated with "God". For one thing, it means we should be more inclined to accept the demands of Kings and Priests who claim to be doing God's will.
     
  22. kenworth dude...**** it,lets go bowling Registered Senior Member

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    off the top of my head.i am part of other people's reality.but to the "deep" I,I am only part of reality as a lens that distorts the information it is given.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There are quite a few of those, with some considerable differences between them.

    Which ones did you have in mind ?
    Are you sure that question exists ? If I were to point out that descriptions of reality exist both with and without the inclusion of an "I" as part of them, how should that question be answered ?
     

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