Atheists and the soul

Do you sign?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • No.

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Total voters
    15
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Because the fiddle of gold is merely transitory, whereas a free pass to heaven is eternal.

Or so the priests would have us believe. So where is altruism now?
 
The Marquis said:
Because the fiddle of gold is merely transitory, whereas a free pass to heaven is eternal.

Or so the priests would have us believe. So where is altruism now?
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altruism is something I would wager 95% of humanity is incapable of understanding or performing
 
I have a tendency to lean toward 100%.
There is something in it, for everyone. Perhaps the thought of heaven itself; or, for some, the prize might even be recognition.
 
The Marquis said:
I have a tendency to lean toward 100%.
There is something in it, for everyone. Perhaps the thought of heaven itself; or, for some, the prize might even be recognition.
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No, surprisingly enough there are some, while few in number, who are capable of being truly selfless. People have given them all sorts of names over the years, but the one that seems most popular today is "Crystal Child" (sometimes confused with "Indigo Child") or Crystalis.
 
The Marquis said:
A quick Google search results in my identification with the Indigo.
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As in you consider yourself an Indigo child?

Would be hard for me to say with the limited interaction we've had... though you seem to have a strong sense of right/wrong and an equally strong sense of will (almost to the point of being intentionally confrontational)... but, again... it's hard to say for sure over the WWW.

To wit:

What are some of the behavioral patterns of Indigos?

They are born feeling and knowing they are special and should be revered.
An indigo knows they belong here as they are and expect you to realize it as well.
These children are more confident and have a higher sense of self-worth.
Absolute authority, the kind with no choices, negotiation, or input from them does not sit well. The educational system is a good example.
Some of the rules we so carefully followed as children seem silly to them and they fight them.
Rigid ritualistic systems are considered archaic to an indigo child. They feel everything should be given creative thought.
They are insightful and often have a better idea of method then what has been in place for years. This makes them seem like "system busters."
Adults often view an indigo as anti-social unless they are with other indigos. Often they feel lost and misunderstood, which causes them to go within.
The old control methods like, "Wait till your father gets home," have no affect on these children.
The fulfillment of their personal needs is important to them, and they will let you know.
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My wife believes I may be an Indigo child, though I am unsure, mostly because of certain traits I had before she and I met. She, truly, awakened something within me that had been dormant... or possibly almost stamped out...

However, I am leading us way off track here... if this is a topic you genuinely wish to discuss Marquis, feel free to PM me or to open your own discussion on it :)
 
cluelusshusbund said:
How do you define "truly selfless" an what famous person do you consider to be "truly selfless".???
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I don't know any truly selfless famous people... the few I have met who are truly selfless shirk the limelight and do not crave attention.
 
Kittamaru said:
As in you consider yourself an Indigo child?
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No, merely indicating that a quick search on what you'd written had me leaning that way.
In much the same way I'd read about sun signs and lean toward one or the other had I no prior knowledge of which I was born under.

However, I am leading us way off track here... if this is a topic you genuinely wish to discuss Marquis, feel free to PM me or to open your own discussion on it :)
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Hah! Hell no.
 
The Marquis said:
It's an old concept, to be true, but then who does not have hope?

I do think you're missing the point of the original post, though. It's more about the inherent doubt of the atheist.
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I don't have any hope in an afterlife. I don't have a soul, I don't. I can’t give my friend something that I don’t have. Besides, greed is not a positive trait. Erich Fromm described greed as "a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction."

I let myself be lured into long spells of senseless and sensual ease. I amused myself with being a flaneur, a dandy; a man of fashion. . . . Tired of being on the heights, I deliberately went to the depths in the search for new sensation. What the paradox was to me in the sphere of thought, perversity became to me in the sphere of passion. Desire, at the end, was malady, or a madness, or both. I grew careless of the lives of others, I took pleasure where it pleased me, and passed on. I forgot that every little action of the common day makes or unmakes character, and that therefore what one has done in the secret chamber one has someday to cry aloud on the house-tops. I ceased to be lord over myself. I was no longer the captain of my soul, and did not know it. I allowed pleasure to dominate me. I ended in horrible disgrace.—Oscar Wilde

I was trying to point out that the inversion, 'bargaining for heaven' is even crazier. The devil—he just wants your soul. The other –well, he demands your soul, service, and sacrifices. He wants money, love, your sex life, your right to reproduce, your logic, etc.
 
spidergoat said:
You could just ask, as an atheist, am I absolute in my conviction that there is no God? No. I'm an agnostic atheist. I require evidence to believe. This isn't a weakness, it's a strength.

Ethically, I would not want to take advantage of some poor guy who thinks I have a soul to give. But I could also be mistaken, the guy could be an alien with technology to download my personality into a machine that could replicate a hellish experience.
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That would be your identical twin suffering, which could still be unethical though.
 
Wherecomes this idea of "truly" selfless? All people are part self-interested and part altruistic. It's a bell curve.

Seems silly to suggest that somehow caring about one's fellow man only "counts" if it's in the 99.9% percentile.

Fine. A "truly selfless person" is an oxymoron, since they would have died of starvation, having given all their food away.
 
Trooper said:
I can’t give my friend something that I don’t have.
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Really?

I offer you a contract that says I will give you a piece of gum in exchange for all the coin in your pocket, when I have - just moments before - watched you turn out your pockets, empty. Are you suggesting you would be unable to agree to that contract? The contract does not require there be any coin in your pocket - simply that, if there were, I would be entitled to it.



Trooper said:
Nope. I wouldn't sign simply because I’m not avaricious.
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Presumably you don't play the lottery.

Trooper said:
Besides, greed is not a positive trait.
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No one said you have to be greedy. As has been pointed out, you could do a lot of good with that money.

By the way, did you vote?
 
To me, a truly selfless person is someone who will do something for another without EXPECTING something in return aside from perhaps gratitude or the desire to see that person "pass it on". A small example of it; I make a point of stopping to check on people I see out walking that don't appear to be walking for the sake of walking (obviously someone out in sweatpants with an mp3 player and sweatband jogging is most likely there for the sake of jogging) and ask if they need or could use a ride somewhere. It's rare that the person actually wants/needs a ride, but on more than one occasion I've had them accept with relief because of various things (one persons car had run out of gas, another didn't have a car and was walking home from work when it started pouring, etc).

I don't expect anything in return from them; at most, I hope that, should I ever find myself in such a situation, perhaps some kind soul would offer the same for me.

Is it 100% selfless? No, of course not - I feel good being able to help someone, even if it is with something so seemingly insignificant... but I'm not asking anything of them, nor do I feel like I should.

As they said in the movie "Robots": See a need, fill a need.
 
Replying to the beginnings of this thread. I think the word soul is somewhat undefineable. I don't necessarily believe in words specifically, at all. Often I think concerning esoteric matters of spirituality and religion there is often demand, and competition which really take away from the beauty life. :) Is Life a pseudonym for god, maybe I don't know. Funny how choosing literalism as character defense mechanism can often be like the word bigotry; unnecessarily harmful and wasteful of time and time and life. Inherently people and specific things aren't directly related to one another (yet relativism exists). I guess literal perceptive stance again can be;unnecessarily harmful and wastefull of time and life. ]shrug[
 
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