Blame The Russians?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Bowser, Dec 20, 2016.

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Are the Russians to blame for Trump's victor?

  1. Yeah, they rule everything, including political choices.

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. They hacked the DNC and showed us the truth. Yes, they are to blame.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. They played a role, somehow, some way, we just know it.

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. No, they are simply political victims of the Democratic Party blame game.

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  5. They played no role and are having a good laugh at our politics and media

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,883
    All this talk about Russian involvement (hacking) in our election really does show the lack of humility on the part of the Democratic Party and the Media. If not for the potential of creating a new conflict, I would probably just shrug it off and give it a laugh, but these fools are chasing this myth at full speed. Look at the evidence, there is none. It's a conspiracy theory that diverts attention from the failures of the Democrats.

    Even if the Russians had hacked the DNC, should we not be thankful, now knowing the corruption within the Democratic organization? If it should ever be proved, I will personally send a thank you note to Putin for doing what no American journalist ever would.

    Hold on for the near future. I don't put it past Obama and Hillary to entrap us in a war before Trump assumes office, but I hope to be proven wrong.
     
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  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,448
    No evidence? Are you a little crazy?

    We should be happy that a foreign government tried to influence our election? Are you a little crazy?

    You are a little crazy. I am going to go out on a limb here; Obama will not start a war... By the way Hillary won't start one either, she is not even in the government.

    The term deplorable comes to mind.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,155
    Wow, those poll options don't show a bias at all ... nope, not at all... [/s]

    The simple fact is, we know they did something. We don't know the full extent of it (well, the US intelligence agencies might, but they are playing it awful quiet right now). We also know that Obama wanted to go public with this right away, but decided to "play it nice" because of the upcoming election out of respect and a fear of appearing to be trying to sway the election using underhanded tactics (something I say he should have just done, given how poorly reported and biased our media is currently... better to just get it all out there but *shrug*)

    The fact that there was influence and meddling from a hostile, outside force, in and of itself, regardless of extent, should be enough to cause concern.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,050
    It seems most likely that the emails were leaked, not hacked. Our intelligence community spies on everyone, 'friends" and "enemies" alike, so with simple projection, our spy agencies assume that everyone is spying on us.
    And, they are often wrong(wmd, etc...).
     
  8. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    We (the dumb ass public) know squat about any hacking or "....fact that there was influence..." relating to the election.

    Australia has a working visa called a 457 which allows persons with skills lacking in Australia to come and work here.

    If you don't want Trump I will try to arrange a 457 for him.

    But you have to promise to take our Prime Minister and give him a green card.

    Humpty Dumpty deal maker.
     
  9. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,155
    The whole WMD thing... unfortunately, we will never know the full truth there; was there ACTUALLY intelligence that they existed... or was that fabricated to give Bouncing Baby Bush a reason to in and finish what his daddy started...
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,696
    And who do you think leaked them if they weren't hacked? Do you think John Podesta leaked his own emails? Where is the evidence to support that one?

    It's always amazing to see how far people will go attempting to rationalize their irrational biases - attempting to rationalize the irrational and blatantly false.

    Yes, spy agencies spy on each other, but what does that have to do with the fact Russians illegally hacked and leaked the hacked materials? What does that have to do with the fact the Republican candidate, The Donald, called upon Russia to release the hacked documents?

    Two, the people who got WMD wrong are gone. They've been gone for 8 years now...oops. So for you to equate the current intelligence community with the George Jr. intelligence community is just plain wrong on a number of fronts. The intelligence community rank and file told George Jr. there was no evidence of WMD, George Jr. and his appointees decided to ignore it. Because that wasn't the answer they wanted. The George Jr. administration even went so far as to out a CIA agent in order to cover up the administration's manipulation of the intelligence, and which ultimately led to the conviction of a top White House aid, Scooter Libby, for obstruction of justice and making false statements.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

    The fact is all of America's intelligence agencies and private agencies found Russia illegally intervened in our election process and hacked the servers of Democrats. This is Watergate stuff and very analogous to what Nixon, a Republican, did in the 70s when Republican operatives broke into Democratic Party offices and ultimately led to his resignation. But now it doesn't matter to Republicans, back then it did. That's evidence of how far the Republican Party has fallen. Back then, at least the Republican Party could tell the difference between right and wrong. Back then the Republican Party put the interests of the nation above the interests of the party. Unfortunately, -Sieg Heil - that's not the case today. The modern Republican Party has no moral backbone. It's only allegiance is to the party, and that should be a problem for all Americans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  11. spidergoat Speak of the Devil Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    51,227
    The Russians did hack the servers of both parties. Isn't this a problem? They didn't hack the actual voting process, no one is claiming that. What if the Republicans decide to do something Putin doesn't like?

    Trump is the one getting us into a war with China. Wake the fuck up.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,696
    Here is the the thing, the Senate majority leader says he wants to investigate the hacking. But he doesn't want to investigate it that much, because he opposes a select committee to investigate the hacking. Now the odd thing about that is Republicans had absolutely no problems with a select committee to investigate Hillary Clinton.

    PS: The poll in this thread kind of reminds me of a Russian ballot. There really is only one option, Democrats are bad. Well, at least it's worth a good laugh. The sad part is most right wingers can see none of this nor do they want to, all they see are their delusions as evidenced by their posts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,438
    And all this denial by the right wing shows that they will whine and cry about anything. They won the election, and still all you see are these whines about how unfair it is that the US is investigating how Russia tried to influence the election. We know from years past they are sore losers - looks like they are even sore winners.

    But let's get your take on it. There is now ample evidence that Russia illegally hacked into US servers and tried to sway the election. The FBI, CIA and NSA all agree that they tried to do just that. Should it be investigated? Or should we ignore it and pretend it never happened?
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,438
    And yet the FBI, NSA and CIA think differently. What is your evidence?
     
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  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,818
    It's a side issue but my understanding is that what gave Dubbya's administration conviction about WMD was that Rumsfeld was the very man who provided WMD to Saddam in the 1980s, to help him in the Iran-Iraq War. So the arguments was, "We know you've got them because we gave them to you.".
     
  16. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,155
    Thing is, that would assume he sat on them for 20+ years and didn't use them... which, I guess, is possible...?
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,438
    Oh, he used them against the Iranians - which is what we were hoping for.
     
  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,883
    He did use them on several villages. I can't sight the article since it's been years when a I read it. Also, I remember reading news that they were used during the Iraq/Iran war.
     
  19. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,155
    Which would, I would imagine, mean he no longer had them (or many of them at least)
     
  20. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,883
    I don't know. It does come to mind that he acquired them indirectly from the US ( we supplied the means under the guise of agriculture). It's info from many years back when he was an ally of the US.
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,818
    Yes I think in the end they found that he had actually got rid of the remaining stock - having gassed some Kurds first of course.
     
  22. spidergoat Speak of the Devil Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    51,227
    It's especially ironic that Trump would seek to undermine the credibility of the CIA by invoking the Bush era intelligence about Iraq, when Trump himself was considering John Bolton for Secretary of State, who may have personally encouraged the falsehood about Iraq's procurement of yellowcake uranium.

    Bolton now thinks the accusations of Russian hacking are a false flag operation by Obama.

    Once a liar, always a liar.
     
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  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,438
    Especially since Trump originally supported the invasion.
     

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