Bloody Jehova's Witnesses

yes. your works are inherently a product of your faith which is inherently the product of your relationship with god. i mean, you would have to know him in order to trust him wouldn't you? and if you trust him it affects things you do.

 

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oh, i think it's safe to say that dubya's going to get his. i'm a firm believer in what comes around goes around. that's karma, and i believe it's spiritual law.

 

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Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe I'm toast. How do I know I'm such a great person? What actually constitutes "justification" (look it up on wiki) or saving grace to an Almighty Being? Who knows? So to him his way, to me mine. I'll take what I guess is the best shot I can.

 

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OK - I'm confused again - are you saying that the Christian god (assuming it exists) would consider Ghandi for a place in heaven due to his "saving graces"?

Or are you saying that Dubya's seemingly almost complete inability to behave in what many people would consider a christian manner might not be important to god, as she may have different standards as to how a christian should behave than what we do?

 

you know you can have some fun with the Witless ,tell them to prove to you they are the Real xians.

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http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkkrOh...library.com/fundies/test_those_christians.php
www.paganlibrary.com/fundies/test_those_christians.php

 

Yeh.

Neh.

 

I hope so - personally I'd like to see it happen while he's still alive though

but that's not really the point I'm getting at - perhaps my fault for using real people as examples

what I am trying to understand is why, for example, would say a hypothetical person who, while having been born again etc etc, but then lived life like an evil motherfucking slimeball - have, in potentia at least, a greater chance of going to heaven (for the simple virtue that they were born again) than, say another hypothetical person who had lived an entirely peaceful, charitable, non-materialistic, and righteous life ( i.e. the very epitome of what we might consider to be christian values) - but had the simple misfortune of never having been born again - and in fact had never even been a christian through a simple accident of birth?

The question's a bit long winded - sorry - hope it makes sense

 

"Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."
Jesus said to go out into the world and preach the news

They aren't selling anything. They never ask for money. They're not "soliciting" anything.

1. 1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

Actions speak louder than words my dear.

 

Hum, good quotes those.

 

Thanks bear!

 

it is my personal opinion that their methods are intrusive, condescending, and rude. no one needs to go door to door soliciting souls for god. god does not come uninvited, and we shouldn't on his behalf either. it's rather obvious by most people's reactions to this kind of behavior that it's not welcome. which is probably why jesus himself didn't do it either. jesus was invited to preach, and people followed him, not the other way around. and the point is that the reason they're doing it isn't even altruistic but selfish, as they are apparently doing it only because they think that's how they get to heaven, and this is a false message that they are spreading in the name of jesus christ my saviour, and actions and words both speak loudly when his name is attached to them.

dear.

 

Jesus came invited!?!?!?! Are you sure

Mark 11:15-18
15On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written:
" 'My house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations'[c]? But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'[d]"

18The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.

Mark 11: 27-33

27They arrived again in Jerusalem, and while Jesus was walking in the temple courts, the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders came to him. 28"By what authority are you doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave you authority to do this?"

29Jesus replied, "I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 30John's baptism—was it from heaven, or from men? Tell me!"

31They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' 32But if we say, 'From men'...." (They feared the people, for everyone held that John really was a prophet.)

33So they answered Jesus, "We don't know."
Jesus said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things."

Sounds pretty invited to me!

dear <--- I didn't mean to be condescending. Sorry if it came off that way

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do what my father in law did, he gave them a book of mormon! they didnt come back any time soon!

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one time a couple of them came knocking on my door asking for me, and my husband told them that i was outside sacrificing a chicken to satan

 

well, the bible tells us several things that could help explain this. one is that none of us are "good". another is that none of us are fit to judge another. it does though give us some extremely general but pretty obvious and effective guidlines regarding behavior, and what may or may not be driving it. it refers to fruit instead of works and says that if the fruit is good, it's of a good spirit and if the fruit is bad, it's of a bad spirit. i think that people are led by spirits all the time whether they're born again or not, or even believe in them or not.

the difference is that when you're born again, it's like you're able to tune into this spirit and receive counsel and insight that you wouldn't have otherwise. i know that to ask god to come into your life and be a part of it and basically to offer it up to him takes a lot of sincerity and humility, and those things are generally recognizable in people to an extent. i mean, nobody's perfect, and i don't think that people who know god are any "better" people than anybody who doesn't. we're all basically the same but our level of understanding isn't.

 

Haha!!! Both priceless. A friend of mine once said that he was Jewish. They said something about how god doesn't recognize Judaism anymore, and he said "If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me."

 

'Please don't come again' has always worked for me with Jehovah's Witnesses. I even smiled when I said it. You could be very American and threaten them with a gun or something, but I can't for the life of me understand why.

 

i can see him doing the same things in most organized religious facilities now.

do you not understand that the intentions of these cultists are not the same as those of christ? i'm sorry, but i've made my point, and it's...they're wrong.

 

They are all one and the same, Lori. You're "saying so" doesn't cut it. Christianity is an evangelistic cult. Deal with it.

 

Just call the Kingdom Hall and ask them not to stop over anymore. If they get rude tell them you will press trespassing charges. But usually they are nice and say ok.

 

Are you feeling that your faith is being challenged? Is that why you are ending this discussion?

Back up your assumption that they are wrong using scripture. I have thus far proved that they are doing what Jesus would do, according to scripture.

But if you are starting to see the fallacies in your faith and don't want to face the fact that you are wrong, then we can stop.