Can fermentation happen in this example?

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by NGM, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. NGM Registered Member

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    A group of hot pepper lovers has a discussion currently about filling a tightly covered container of Vodka or Everclear, (Grain Alcohol), with raw hot peppers that have been masticated.

    The experiment is to extract the capsicum oils from the plant matter into solution with the alcohol, then filter off the solids and evaporate the alcohol to leave only the extracted capsicum oils in a very concentrated form to be used in various recipes.

    The debate is if the peppers would ferment and cause gases to pressurize the container of alcohol and become a possible danger.

    The soaking would be for one or two weeks with an occasional shake of the contents.

    I don't think that any fermentation would happen because of the absence of bacteria and/or yeast.

    Others on the group fill both sides of the discussion.

    I've come here seeking an educated answer to this question. Can fermentation take place in this type of process?

    Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.
     
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  3. Positron Agony: Not all pain is gain Registered Senior Member

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    I wouldnt think so, and if it does, being a glass container, I doubt it would explode, jsut watch the face when you open it.
     
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  5. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    I would have to agree with Positron..I don't think it would ferment. Evaporate the alcohol? What the hell..that's alcohol abuse! Drink it! I tell you what...with all that capsicum, I'd have a bucket of ice water to sit in for the morning after dump.

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  7. NGM Registered Member

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    Thanks Positron, however, the discussion is filled with people who think it might or might not. I'm seeking a firm scientific answer that will settle the doubt. Also, since the strength of the capsicum would be over one million on the Scoville scale, a pressurized mist escaping could be seriously dangerous to anyone not wearing safety equipment.

    I certainly don't mean to insult you, but we've gone back and forth with "thinking" it can or not. I'm hoping that someone here knows a factual answer that can be explained to the group.

    Thanks for your input though.
     
  8. NGM Registered Member

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    Ha! I hear you man! We're all confirmed heatseekers via capsicum intake. We love our heat more than we love booze!

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  9. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Holy shit on shingle! over one million on the Scoville scale!...what?....are you at war with your sphincter?

    What kinda "Adam's Family" reciepe are you cooking up with this level 5 biotoxin? (I like to cook)
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Recipies my ass, you are making a chemical weapon. Anyway, no, nothing will ferment in a bottle of grain alcohol. In fact, you could put a snake in there, and it will still be drinkable years later (this is a popular asian concoction).
     
  11. NGM Registered Member

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    Your cracking me up! There are several types of peppers now that are naturally over one million on the Scoville with no extraction at all. This is right off the plant:

    1. Naga Jolokia at 1. 5 million SHU
    2. Dorset Naga at 1.2 million SHU
    3. Trinidad Scorpion at 1.2 million SHU
    4. Trinidad 7-Pod at 1.2 million SHU

    As well as quite a few that are between 300,000 and 800,000 SHU

    I'm growing the 7 hottest down from the Naga. My sauces are great!

    Hhaahhahahaaha, now yer killin me! Actually, it's quite easy to develop a tolerance to capsicum. I'm a relative newbie to growing and eating the hotter ones and after only a few months, I no longer feel much heat at all from the more tame of peppers like Jalapenos and such. The common orange Habanero has a respectable heat for table use, and many of us on this group eat them all by themselves. The Super Hots are respected by all. One of the members has several Utube evaluations of the Super Hots. Look for "HippySeedCompany Pepper" on Utube and watch a couple. He's the reigning champion of capsicum eaters on the pepper group.

    So you're saying that absolutely NO fermentation will take place? How do you justify this opinion chemically?

    Thanks folks. "The Hot Pepper" group is open to all. Come on in and learn about this wonderful food!

    As for the after-effects, as one member stated with much humor; "After awhile, the exit area is trained to be immune". It no longer affects me with anything up to Habs.
     
  12. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Alcohol is a preservative, it will prevent all fermentation. When fermentation makes alcohol, at a certain point there is enough alcohol in the mix to kill the yeast and end fermentation. When you distill the alcohol so it's pure, absolutely nothing can grow in there.
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    dry the peppers first, wet peppers might make it messy. But yes it should work alcohol will dissolve the capsaicin and nothing can ferment in anything beyond 50 proof alcohol. Then it simply a matter of boiling the alcohol (not with an open flame or in closed spaces) and collecting the oil/powder, if it pure enough it will be a powder, if fatts are mix in with will be an oil. Oh a good tip is to never rub your eyes, even the smallest flake is going to hurt like hell, you'll have to pour milk into your eye!
     
  14. NGM Registered Member

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    Thank you both. I'll post these last two replies to the pepper group and see if it settles the debate.
     
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    By the way, what's wrong with fermenting? Isn't that how Tobasco is made?
     
  16. 11parcal Saint of Cynicism Registered Senior Member

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    Fear of carbon dioxide caused explosions i'm thinking
     
  17. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Homemade Bacon Vodka

    You can infuse alcohol with almost any flavor. As far as concentrating capsicum, (and other things) you could also use pure acetone or even butane.
     
  18. NGM Registered Member

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    Yes, it is. Depending on what you want as the final product, fermented pepper sauce is great. It's complimented then by adding yet more heat to it with extracted capsicum. Almost all of the most used of the Super Hot sauces have extract in them.

    There is one collectors bottle that Blair Hot Sauces makes, (if I remember correctly), that goes for almost $800.00 per/bottle. I think it's 7 ounces.

    WAY out of my league, but every bottle of each of his collector series gets sold out every year. It's revered as one of the hottest sauces in the world.

    These are the types of sauces I'm talking about making. The measurement of the ingredients is critical to the outcome being consistent.

    You might not believe how many people are seriously loving their hot sauces.

    It's just a part of meals to me, but I do love making my own and playing with the flavors.

    Tabasco is good flavored sauce. 50 to 60 million bottles a year good. No kidding.

    The lesser known sauces go for about 5 to 7 dollars per/bottle and quite often sell out batches of 5,000. I was very surprised at the popularity of something so simple.

    Thanks for the info, folks. I'll jump in and see what's up here in the next few weeks. I'll lurk for awhile until I get a feel for the place.
     
  19. NGM Registered Member

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    The additional steps necessary to rid the product of the residuals of butane or acetone to the FDA's standards or even common sense health standards would add a degree of difficulty to the project.
     
  20. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Ethanol is a metabolic byproduct.

    Ethanol is toxic to the bacteria and yeasts that produce them, as is the case with most organisms - the metabolic byproducts they excrete are toxic to them.

    The upper limit, in most cases is around 10%. Any alcoholic beverage containing moe then 10% alcohol, has in general, been distilled to some level (the upper limit on Distilation is 95% alcohol).

    So, the answer is, if you're using anything stronger then about a 20 0r 30% solution of alcohol in water, it should be quite safe from fermentation and the liberation of gasses.

    http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jitkangl/Fermentation of Ethanol/Fermentation of Ethanol.htm
     
  21. Steve100 O͓͍̯̬̯̙͈̟̥̳̩͒̆̿ͬ̑̀̓̿͋ͬ ̙̳ͅ ̫̪̳͔O Valued Senior Member

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    You use the word mastication.
    Are you actually going to chew these first?
     
  22. NGM Registered Member

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    Yes. I'm going to "chew" them in a food processor. The word masticate is used as the action of causing a substance to tear apart from itself through the application of force in ripping, tearing, slicing, dicing or any other description of force that results in it becoming smaller pieces of itself. I could masticate it with a hammer or by running over it in a car with tire chains on and the result would still be a masticated substance. It also means the same thing when done with something in the human mouth by applying force with the tongue and teeth with pressure from the jaw.
     
  23. NGM Registered Member

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    Thank you Trippy! That's a wonderful answer that I can show the pepper group!
     

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