Can former atheists explain what atheism is?

Jan Ardena said:
There is nothing that any theist is going to say, about God, that you are going to accept.
The reason is because you are an atheist. It doesn’t matter whether or not you comprehend what is being said. It therefore cannot matter if the truth is being spoken, because all you are going to do, all that your worldview demands of you, is to deny and reject God.

You can’t even answer a simple question, because you know your position makes no sense. All you do is deny, deny, deny, and reject.

You have already answered the question by dodging, and making false accusations.
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How can I answer a question when you have already decided what the answer is going to be? Your answers are there in bold. You have denied me my freedom of speech by filling my mouth with words I never said. You will never listen to or accept my answer, you have already made up your mind. It's just a one way conversation, I am not allowed to say anything according to you.
 
Goldtop said:
How can I answer a question when you have already decided what the answer is going to be? Your answers are there in bold. You have denied me my freedom of speech by filling my mouth with words I never said. You will never listen to or accept my answer, you have already made up your mind. It's just a one way conversation, I am not allowed to say anything according to you.
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This is truly Trumpian, every personal wishful thought is truth, all others must submit to the "truth according to ......(take your pick, Trump, Bible, Jan).
 
Goldtop said:
How can I answer a question when you have already decided what the answer is going to be? Your answers are there in bold. You have denied me my freedom of speech by filling my mouth with words I never said.
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And that is just the way he likes it. Hearing your own opinions may make him doubt his. (Or, more accurately, abandon the thread for a while until he thinks people have forgotten.)
 
Jan Ardena said:
An atheist, therefore, should have an idea of what would be regarded as evidence enough for them to accept that God exists, because an atheist knows, or thinks he knows, what is not evidence of God.
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That doesn't follow.
Jan Ardena said:
That’s your opinion, but there’s no way you can know, because you are a card carrying atheist.
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There is obviously a way I can know - I can listen to the many different kinds of atheists, and observe they are different.
A few even carry cards, maybe - it's possible. They would speak for themselves as well.
Jan Ardena said:
I said “ As an atheist”, not what you personally think.
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Same as, for any atheist.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Not quite.
I’m asking what atheism is, from the POV of a former atheist who now accepts and believes in God.



I can see how you could draw that conclusion.
God is pure spirit, and God’s connection with us is purely spiritual.
The spirit is not affected by the harshness of material life, we only think it is, because we identify as the material, not as the spiritual.
Jesus was a representative of God who came to show us the difference between these worlds. Just to give an example that God doesn’t forsake us. We forsake ourselves because we are rapidly falling away from the truth, or the light, and embracing the lie, or darkness, by believing in a temporary manifestation as the sum total of existence. Where we reduce the spiritual, to mere emotions. And everything is just chemical reactions occurring in our brain.



There is a guiding force. It is the force of nature. Nature has a character, and it is played out with precision. We are part nature. We use nature. The simple act of typing this message is an action that required me to utilise the forces of nature. Every single action, no matter how minute, requires the assistance of nature.
To every action there is an opposite and equal reaction, a thermodynamic law.
It doesn’t matter who the person is. They could be the cutest baby ever, or a really good person, nature will act precisely upon them.



You mean a Christian may say that. But a theist would have no reason to say that



I think you meant a “ hands on God”.
Did you?

That being said, I understand.
There is a way to pray to God, because it is not just a case of asking for something. We need to learn how to address God. For that we need the assistance of people who themselves are already God conscious. A good example is the Lords Prayer. Jesus taught this to his deciples.



Agreed! :)


We have been fed this idea of God coming and taking all the Christians up to heaven, leaving the sinners on the earth, and so on.

But this has nothing to do with God. Unfortunately a lot of damage has been done, but it’s not too late to fix these false notions of God. Understand God through scripture is a good way to begin the process.

Jan.
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Wow. Based on this response I am at a loss to understand your beliefs. Some of what you stated appears to be contradictory (to me). I am sure this all makes sense to you, but this seems quite confusing to me.

Thanks for the reply.
 
iceaura said:
That doesn't follow.
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Why not?

iceaura said:
There is obviously a way I can know - I can listen to the many different kinds of atheists, and observe they are different.
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They may differ within the atheist mindset. One atheist may deem theism a good thing, for whatever reason, and another atheist may see it as a bad thing, for whatever reason. One atheist may accept the possibility of there being a God, and another may think the idea of s God is preposterous. But no matter what any atheist thinks or believe, they are atheist. They can never be anything more than atheist, as long as they remain atheist.

So my question is, before an atheist realises he has been in denial and rejection of God, what is his state of mind.

If I were to ask you atheists now, what your state of mind regarding atheism is. Your all going to create scenario where you are content in your atheism. This is because you are in denial (from theistic and scriptural POV).
This denial and rejection is as clear as day, even in this thread.
But you have to pile drive through your denial, and act as though you’re not in denial, or rejection, so you can maintain your position. Otherwise you’re going to have to admit to yourself, that you are irrational.

Now obviously you’re going to take issue with me stating you are in denial and rejection of God. But that is how former atheists tend to describe their position. They don’t have to go scouring through science and philosophy books to understand there is a God. God is always there, they just didn’t want to look.

Bear in mind, these are atheist like yourself. They believed religion, scripture, theism, and God, were not based in evidence, not based in reality, made for weak people who couldn’t face death, and a host of other nonsense.
They would argue in a similar fashion to sny other thinking atheist, because you all wee in the same pot of responses and reactions.

Jan.
 
Jan Ardena said:
you are in denial (from theistic and scriptural POV
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Jan Ardena said:
obviously you’re going to take issue with me stating you are in denial and rejection
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Obviously? You mean the fact that most here have been taking issue with that for as long as you've been here making those statements isn't obvious enough? When did it actually become obvious to you?

And of course, you aren't actually making those statements from a theistic and scriputural POV, but instead you are in fact making those statements from a "Jan" POV. There are many theists who would disagree with you in that regard. We talk to them, too. They don't fill our mouths with their words like you do. Some of them actually listen to what we have to say and don't run a constant monologue telling us what we think and believe.

Perhaps, we should be taking our advice from you and we too can start telling you how you think, what you believe and we'll just ignore everything you have to say about it. We could call it "From a Reality POV".

Of course, the difference is that we won't stoop to that level of dishonesty, arrogance and pettiness. Seems you will, though.
 
Goldtop said:
You have dishonestly and arrogantly answered it already. I don't dodge honest questions, Jan. That's what you do.
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Jan doesn't dodge questions. He dodges truth and logic. He is totalli immersed in a fantasy world ruled by divine magic.

This is hopeless, you cannot logically converse with a person who is hallucinating. Everything happens from his magical world perspective..

We might as well discuss the world of Jumanji.
 
Jan Ardena said:
They may differ within the atheist mindset. One atheist may deem theism a good thing, for whatever reason, and another atheist may see it as a bad thing, for whatever reason. One atheist may accept the possibility of there being a God, and another may think the idea of s God is preposterous. But no matter what any atheist thinks or believe, they are atheist. They can never be anything more than atheist, as long as they remain atheist.

So my question is, before an atheist realises he has been in denial and rejection of God, what is his state of mind.

If I were to ask you atheists now, what your state of mind regarding atheism is. Your all going to create scenario where you are content in your atheism. This is because you are in denial (from theistic and scriptural POV).
This denial and rejection is as clear as day, even in this thread.
But you have to pile drive through your denial, and act as though you’re not in denial, or rejection, so you can maintain your position. Otherwise you’re going to have to admit to yourself, that you are irrational.

Now obviously you’re going to take issue with me stating you are in denial and rejection of God. But that is how former atheists tend to describe their position. They don’t have to go scouring through science and philosophy books to understand there is a God. God is always there, they just didn’t want to look.

Bear in mind, these are atheist like yourself. They believed religion, scripture, theism, and God, were not based in evidence, not based in reality, made for weak people who couldn’t face death, and a host of other nonsense.
They would argue in a similar fashion to sny other thinking atheist, because you all wee in the same pot of responses and reactions.

Jan.
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I don't see god being there, and it's not because I've previously decided to adopt an "atheist mindset". I never believed there was a God, even as a child. I never disbelieved or rejected it either. I approached it as a story to explain things that people didn't know about, could be right or wrong. It wasn't until I was about 10 and met theists that I realized people actually believed it, but I couldn't figure out why. I was obsessed with religion at around 16, and learned about all kinds of religious ideas other than God. The idea that the only question was God or no God began to seem limiting and culturally unaware . It wasn't until I was about 25 that I found a reason to call myself an atheist. Atheism is a label we call someone who isn't convinced there is a God. There is no such glaring and obvious evidence all around us as you imply. It is arrogant to assume that you are seeing things without blinders, unlike us who blind ourselves with a label. You seem to think if we reject this "atheist mindset" we will miraculously see God. What that really means is accepting there is a God (the opposite of the meaning of atheism) so that we can accept there is a God. In this, you are admitting that it takes bias to see evidence where there is none. I still have not rejected the idea of God as a possibility, but I remain as skeptical as ever, especially when your arguments assume something you have no way of knowing about, my state of mind.

What you argue isn't even an argument, it's a form of bigotry. It's rude, and doesn't even deserve the thought that I'm presently giving it.
 
Jan Ardena said:
They may differ within the atheist mindset.
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There is no such mindset. They will differ within the human population.
Jan Ardena said:
So my question is, before an atheist realises he has been in denial and rejection of God, what is his state of mind.
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That question - which is much different from the OP bs - would apply to only a few atheists. Since there is no atheist mindset, obviously, assuming there is one will likely prevent comprehension of any answers you get even from those few.
And those few will of course differ among themselves, as well.
Jan Ardena said:
Bear in mind, these are atheist like yourself. They believed religion, scripture, theism, and God, were not based in evidence, not based in reality, made for weak people who couldn’t face death, and a host of other nonsense.
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That would be not like me - you are already lost.
Which illustrates the problem with the approach - you would confuse yourself, immediately.

So you can't find out anything about atheism, from such a misleading and poorly calculated approach. And there is no reason to believe you are actually that stupid as to think you could. So - - - .
 
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