Finaly something along these lines that is to the point and not shrouded in inferences. Verry cool! ------------------ The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world -Max Born
Probably, 402! I found it very interesting that a site which sets out to debunk Christianity through use of the Bible, starts out with its own set of problems... The first item of the index is entitled "Bible Discrepancies" while the text under that title addresses a totally different concept entitled "Bible Difficulties." The use of the word "discrepancies" indicates actual disagreement between facts and claims while the use of the word "difficulties" indicates conditions which are not easily comprehended. Throughout the text, there is juducious use of words such as "seems to be"... further indicating that the Bible is not easy to comprehend. That it is difficult to comprehend, I most certainly agree with. However, I think the authors make a great leap when asserting that that which is not understood can be debunked.
No time for a field day, and yes, I am very busy thanks to your bull-headedness, Flash. This site cracks me up. Anyone who has not been saved in Christ, and received the gift of the Holy Spirit, can not and will not understand the Bible to it's fullest depth of meaning. If you don't understand something in the Bible, assume that it is because you are blind. You are blind to God and to the Holy Spirit. It says right in the Bible that the meaning is hidden, the prophecy is sealed, and believe me, when you get the Holy Spirit, you get a new set of eyeballs and brain and heart to go with it. You expect the Bible to be some easy to read text book or something. Tick and tie and step by step, very straight forward. Well, how about this? A person could read the Bible 24/7, memorize every single verse and psalm, practice all kinds of good deeds and rituals and song and prayer til the cows come home, and you know what? They wouldn't be saved. You actually have to believe in Jesus totally, and committ your life to Him. In that every single decision you make and everything you do and think involves Him. You can't fake it. You could actually be a Christian without ever even reading the Bible. You guys know that I don't have any verses memorized. I go straight to the source most of the time, and use the Bible for a back-up resource. See, you guys are forgetting about the all-important Holy Spirit. What does that do to your arguement about the false religion? The Holy Spirit exists, and guides my life. What do ya say to that? ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
I'd say that christians make the rules up as they go along. It sure is odd that a God who WANTS (?) people to follow him and leaves behind a "source" to help "guide" people doesn't make it clear to people who do not believe. I mean..hey, isn't the bible suppose to be used for helping those who do not believe so they can be swayed towards christianity??? hmmmmm let's see...I want to help people...I want to save them...so I am going to leave behind a book for them to be inspired...so they will accept me and Jesus ...but, I don't want to make it too easy for the fools...I'll make sure they will not be able to understand it..UNTIL they agree to follow me. Yeah, it will be like a club with a secret code and everything.
Lori Bull Shit comes to mind......... [This message has been edited by Zapper (edited November 02, 1999).]
This reminds me of the disciples asking Jesus why he spoke to the people in parables. "This is why I speak to them in parables, because 'they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.' Isaiah's prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: 'You shall indeed hear but not understand, you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.' But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it." I don't think this is as difficult as some would make it out to be. It is not a secret code. What I am hearing is that there are many who have received the message of the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. As of yet, though, they simply refuse to accept it. Accepting Jesus Christ/The Holy Spirit/God into one's heart and life does help to make things clearer. PS... Welcome back Lori. By the way, I don't know about you, but I know maybe a handful of people who have maybe a handful of verses "memorized" but I, like you, am not one of them. But for those that do, I say, more power to 'em!!! [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 02, 1999).]
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well that clears it all up! I'm sorry..but I couldn't help myself LOL If that is your source of truth for you truestory...then alright. But it doesn't mean that it is the only and correct one.
TS, Without going into details..let me just say that I am not looking for anything but truth. BUT, I have found it..big, loud, and clear! I am totally 100% free now..and it's great! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Flash, You say you have found truth? Gee, I hope you can find it in your heart and time to go into detail and share what you have found with the rest of us someday. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Lori, truestory, Where did you first learn of God, if not from the Bible/Christianity duo? In which case, you were led to your primary "resource" by a "secondary resource"? And that doesn't seem strange to you? That at the very origin and foundation of your faith, and the things you hold dearest, lies a book and a tradition of parables, inconsistencies, and difficulties? And it poses no problem to you that the "original" people of God (i.e. the Jews) <u>still</u> do not accept Jesus as their prophecied Messiah? Who is the real "authority" in the issue? And, why trust any authority whatsoever, be it Talmudic or Christian, Buddhist or Marxist -- as long as you still possess a mind of your own? Here's a key question, and feel free not to answer it, as usual. Suppose you grew up on an isolated island, in solitude, ever since you can remember. Do you think you would have found "God" on your own, with nobody to teach you? I don't think so! But, if God is truly out there, and cares about all, and wants to teach all -- surely he/she/it would have contacted you anyway, and revealed the truth. Which <u>never</u> happens! What does that tell you? A God that left a book and a swarm of misguided "priests" to further his cause, and abandoned humanity from thence on? Have you never considered the possibility that the positivity, strength, and direction that your faith brings to your life, come not from some ghostly origin, but from within your very own self? Could it simply be that through faith, you merely found a way to unlock something that was always there? That faith is not the only (or even the best) way to unlock it? ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
When I walked away from religion it was because of the bible. I walked away from both god and satan because I considered them one and the same, as yin and yang are equal parts of each other. For the longest time I felt like a tremendous vaccuum had opened up inside of me somewhere. At first the last vestiges of my religious conscience told me that was natural for a life without god and I should go back. I resisted, however, and that vaccuum became filled in with the sweet substance of true spiritual freedom. I am now at a deeper peace with myself and the world around me. I am independent of gods and devils. They have no more hold over me than anybody's imagination. Becoming an atheist is like that time in your life when you grow up and realize that there are no monsters under the bed.
As far as I'm concerned, these type of remarks serve no useful purpose other than to continue to expose a not-so-pleasant part of the personality of the one making such remarks. Does one actually find enjoyment in engaging in this type of behavior? Boris, I don't know what has led you to conclude that God does not contact people and reveal the truth. Maybe it has not happened to you yet but, it has happened to others. I'm sure that you have read and heard that this has happened to people. Isn't it fair to say that you just choose not to believe them? Both you and Tiassa have indicated on a number of ocassions that you believe that I grew up as a religious person. I have indicated on a number of ocassions that I did not. God revealed himself to me, fully, just a few years ago while I was on a sight-seeing tour in New York City. The message I was given was this: "Spread the word. It is not too late. All things can be forgiven. Behold the Son. Through Him, all good things will come." It was AFTER that contact from God that I started studying the Bible, most notably, the life of Jesus Christ (that would constitute less than one tenth of my lifetime to date). Had I studied science before that? Yes. Had I studied math before that? Yes. Had I heard about and considered the concept of God before that? Yes. Had I heard about and considered the concept of religion before that? Yes. Had I heard about and considered the concept of atheism before that? Yes. Had I heard about the existence of the Bible before that? Yes. I suppose that if I grew up on an isolated island in solitude ever since I can remember, out of all of the above, the one experience that I would have most likely have had before the others is contact from God. [This message has been edited by truestory (edited November 03, 1999).]
Lori, I tried to hold this back, but I failed. Your blind to common senes and blind to you own religion. qoute (from the bible): St. Matthew, Ch.6 verses 1-7 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But wen thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward you openly. 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut the door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and they Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. In other words shut up. ------------------ The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world -Max Born [This message has been edited by 666 (edited November 02, 1999).]
Can someone explain to me what is up with so many people on this board claiming to not have the ability to control themselves when it comes to posting nastiness?
truestory, Thanks for answering. Most people just tend to dodge. But I must say, that's a truly intriguing answer. First of all, if you've been out of contact with others for your entire life, you wouldn't even have a <u>concept</u> of God, or of Son, or of sin, or of death (and thus afterlife). Much less the concept of spreading the word, etc. Secondly, if God indeed personally contacts individuals, then why do we need all of the priests and preachers (even like yourself)? Why do we need a book? Why do we need rituals? Thirdly, if God indeed engages in one-to-one conversations with individuals, Judaism would not have abruptly emerged and spread smoothly from an "epicenter"; it would have sprang up in the very first humans, and all world populations, isolated or not, would have maintained an exactly identical religion from the word go. If you claim that to hear God one must first believe in him, you've got a vicious circle on your hands. Had you lived in solitude, you would not have been able to believe in God until you heard him/her/it. Are you claiming that God communicates universally to believers and unbelievers alike? In which case, why does anybody come to this forum in the first place? ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
