Christians - Your Testimonies Please

you seek to convert and proselytize? how dare you!

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I was quite shocked

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How about posting our testimonies for why we gave up on christianity? Both sides of the coin if you will, mines simple, a neighbour who had always done everything he could for charity and for the good of the community up until he was into his 80's and beyond got more ill and suffered and didnt deserve it when people get away with some horrible things in this life, i decided a god would be too kind to let this happen if he existed, especially after what i always taught about him being loving. Plus i started reading, examining religion more and found its flaws, but that was the catalyst.

 

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Seriously tho Kat if I can ask a question of you ...

That was a link from the Transhumanism page that you posted.

People who do what is commonly accepted as 'bad' stuff, rapists, murderers etc, those people could well have super iq's. It is a commonly accepted fact that their is an element of intelligence to some criminal minds.
So I suppose you may say that you could alter the genetics of a person in the womb to eradicate all those genes or give them drugs or whatever. You could give them drugs to make them love eachother more or genetically engineer people to live for ever or a very long time. You could do a lot of things I guess. Brave New World. I dont like it. I dont want to be a biomechanical drone forced to feel chemical emotions or gentically engineered feelings. I want the CHOICE of whether I get really cocky with people and act a right dick in the process with apparently no IQ, OR whether I just chill and say my bit and answer questions or whatever and interact politely. i want the choice. I do not want to be forced to be a certain way by you or other people with good intentions. The 'way' you describe to 'me' seems the epitome of megalamaniacal fantasy. It is an idea that will remain continually frustrated, not because of 'Christians' but because it is ill concieved.
I will speak of my God because my spirit testifies to my God. I dont have to do any sums and I dont have to worry about it, I dont have to fight anybody to have this faith - its mine. I said right at the start, I dont want to change anybody. Who the hell am I that I can change anybody. Changing people looks like it takes a whole lot of chemicals and bioengineering. How the hell could I do all that? But I will speak of my God in a Religous sub-forum.
I know I am gonna die and I am cool with that.

Oh yeah that question ...
Ever planted a seed?

peace

c20 :m:

 

I would be interested to read these too please.

 

C20, you said earlier that you droped the books, but keep quoting scripture? I'm confused.

 

How about for those who know how to use apostrophes?

And accompanied by a snide little "smilie".
Cute.
A weakling, an undisciplined loser who substituted his addiction to one drug by becoming addicted to another, a pussy who cannot bear criticism or harsh language, is somehow of interest - much interest! - to the most supremely powerful being that his primitive mind can dream up. He is favoured, chosen, adored and terrorized by this superlative. For a feminine soul like yours, no higher joy is possible nor a higher honour conferrable than to be treated with interest, nay even love, by such a being.
This love bestowed, this purpose, is not extended to all, but reserved for the few, very faithful who can understand the spooky whispers of the highest spooky spook!
For the rest, not blessed by God's love or interest, there are snide emoticons.

Confused? Oh no. It makes perfect sense. Just not in the way you think it does.

 

Getting ill just put him out of the misery of an old life. What's worse is when a young person continualy suffers but cannot escape it. Also, you mentioned he was a good person helping out the community. What determines "good?"

 

C20,

Understood, although the research into anti-again has been steadily growing over these past 30+ years. But I wasn’t proposing this as some form of alternative religion but more as a practical hope that should indeed enable us to truly cheat the death that religions have been promising for many millennia but with nothing to show for it. There still remains no credible evidence for the supernatural, gods, or souls, all of which have to be true for your belief to have any practical value.

Bear in mind that was the original article and it is now over 10 years old. It has since spawned a whole set of associations and discussion forums. But whether the singularity occurs as expected or not it cannot be denied that technological changes are occurring at an increasing non-linear rate and Moores Law is still maintaining its momentum. The merger of human brain with technology has already begun and looks certain to proceed at an ever faster pace over the next few decades.

But there is no simple rule book like the bible and it isn’t a philosophy in that sense. And neither did I intend my comments in that light.

Well OK I only gave you some simple snippets. The transhumanism forums have whole discussion groups that cater for transhumanist life, art, culture, economics etc. But my point would be that I really don’t care too much about how to live if I am going to die very shortly. Once the problem of involuntary death is solved then I can give some thought about how to live.

If you have only just discovered religion then a jump to these other philosophies might be difficult right now. I am pleased that you even considered looking at one of the links.

But in the end our goals are the same – in the Christian world Jesus said ‘believe in me and you shall have everlasting life’. This is the promise of Christianity. I simply see no reason to believe that and that means I must look to human generated solutions, otherwise there is no hope.

Take care
Kat

 

Hathor,

Damn, busted! I thought everyone would be so pissed at my insults that they wouldn’t notice my real intent.

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Kat

 

C20,

The problem you might face is that there are many in the world who will very willingly embrace high technology and will enhance themselves beyond recognition and will effectively create a new race very different to current bio humans. This along with AI will give birth to super intelligence and you will appear as intelligent to them as an ant appears to us now – in short you will be at their mercy. The outcome is simply entirely unclear.

While you might want to choose the apparent simpler and safer route, others will not and as we have seen from past evolutionary cusps, you and those like you are very likely to become extinct, or seen as a worrisome threat and ruthlessly exterminated.

If given a chance to voluntary evolve then I would not hesitate. But consider, if we do develop such technology that enables unlimited lifespan, far greater intelligence and more resilient bodies then what will happen to religious beliefs? Without a need to die what would religion be able to offer?

Kat

 

lol whatever 'm8

It was a wink at you! You wernt listening to what I was saying in my posts and then explaining why you didnt think it was relevant to you or whatever, instead you wanted to patronise and belittle my beliefs and me personally to make you feel a little bit better about yourself. You want to make me out to be some kind of weakling who has moved from one drug to the other and I'm all confused ladedadeda. I was saying politely - Ok m8 - whatever - you just come to mock. It was a wink at you! Now be a good moderator and keep order will you. Some people are making 'personal remarks'

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and here they are ...

lol - yeah whatever - you da man! It's a shame when a site tolerates this blatant flaunting of site rules from its moderators. I suppose its free speech tho eh Xev! Twist the rules to suit!

oohhhh 'supremely' - did you dream up what a supremely powerful being might be in your own mind? Wow imagine that!

This is a cheap piss take m8. Feel better? Moderators eh?

nope - was a 'wink' for you! although you interpreted it as 'snide' ( cant think why - were you being snidey? << small point but worth noting especially for the psychiatrists among you).

Look in the mirror m8! Say that ^^^ .

peace

c20 :m:

 

C20

I dont want to be a biomechanical drone forced to feel chemical emotions or gentically engineered feelings.

the thing is c20, you already are. there is nothing really mystical or sacred about an organism that seeks an equilibrium b/w its internal states and the environment. if external conditions change, an internal adaptation will probably occur and new balance established.

now your point of contention is that artificial changes, ie: those that are willfully affected by man are somehow qualitatively different from the spontaneous kind.

why? i fail to see any meaningful distinction.

humans are a work in progress and there is room for improvement. let us not be held back by ancient superstitions as to what our role in the universe is.

who dare presumes to know the workings of the most high? perhaps it is HIS PLAN

*i kinda dig night vision, a tail and 24/7 bliss. is that so bad?

xev

still in one piece? shit! another unanswered prayer

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Yeah night vision sounds cool and all that ( dunno bout the tail tho

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)
but what if we mess it up? What if the nanobots or whatever is needed to sort it all out.. what if that all turns bad or it runs out of energy and then our night vision mutates and we basically all mutate and its all a right mess. I have this nightmare of millions of nanobots out of control tearing apart the fabric of society. Wouldnt man have put himself at the mercy of machines no matter how advanced he had made them? How would you ensure health and saftey was maintained strictly in a society that had become dependant on machines? Who would audit the machines?
I suppose I would have to be left behind. I seem excluded because your world of machines seems inpalatable to me. I cannot trust them because at their root they were made by man and at mans root we find something that is fallable. Who would I really be putting my trust in?


peace

c20 :m:

 

please trust in god and doubt him not

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There would be people Kat that would share your technological vision. I am a software programmer and I code in 13 languages, make a living from it to support my wife and four kids. Why am I saying that? I love technology too! I have been programming since I was seven. Weird it was - dad bought some zx spectrum thing and I just picked it up. The language was BASIC and it made tons of sense to me lol. Much more than ordinary spoken language in its structure. I was programming games not long after getting my hands on one. I love technology. I love logic, analysis, developing solutions. I have an analytical mind much like you, it doesnt just extend to object orientated programming either.
I think technology is cool but I like being just me. I dont want any personal 'biotech' enhancements cos Im happy as just as is. I am happy just to be a man. thas it. just to be a man and live and breathe. I like being this thing called 'man'.
There is just something going on inside me that I cant fully explain or put my finger on. People will take the piss and call me nuts and yeah yeah yeah.
But - here you go true SciFi'ers 'There is somink going on in me and its bigger than me - and I am not lying!' - I really do feel like a new person after my experience. I did the cliched thing of 'inviting Jesus into my life' at a Jesus good old 'yeah yeah' meeting and ever since then I have learnt things about God and myself that I would never have known had my outlook not so dramatically changed. I did not go to church after this experience or change my basic lifestyle. I did read the bible a bit but it was a bit muzzy to me and whilst I understood some basic message I didnt really know what it was about BUT - that thing that people call the Holy Spirit, it definately entered my life when I gave Jesus a chance albeit a snidey one.'
It just is that. And now I cant deny it. Thats it. And I love it

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Its not that I dont tolerate your biotech utopia - it just doesnt seem relevant to me somehow. Nanobots and all that do seem like an arrogant human risk tho I have to say. If you go ahead and mess it up - well blame the programmers - everyone else does

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peace

c20 :m:

 

Listen m8, if God lets you go ahead and do it then fair enough - I'll have a bloody tail as well OK

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peace

c20

 

Sorry, I know this does not fit here, but what the hell are you talking about?

You some kind of New Age Christian?
Be serious, the holy spirit entered your life did I understand that correctly?

People like you somehow make me sick.
(sorry to say so)

 

cheers lol

 

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Its the fact that the organism is there at all that interests me. Its like a seed. Seeds are amazing. Sure scientists can tell me what the bits of a seed are called, they can map the chemical reactions in the seed, they can highlight genetic patterns and alter them. Scientists can do a lot of things. But they cant get something from nothing. They just cant. They would need at least a state of being to even attempt it. They would need conciousness at the very least.
Scientists are cool. Clever people but they cant produce anything out of nothing.
I stand in awe of the little seed. Its magnificent. Yes you can classify it and tell me how it works or how you can change it or whatever but I am still gonna stand in awe of it outside of what you can tell me about it.
Can you blame me for viewing what it is in awe and attributing its existence to a Creator? Of all the inventions in all the world I think the seed is the most marvellous.
Its a sacred moment when the seedling reaches out to the sun for the first time

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And its a little mystical if its a bright foggy morning

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