Crazy things famous Christians say

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, May 31, 2014.

  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    No. I refer to the mainstream christian belief that everyone is destined for hell unless they pick the correct ticket out of the belief lottery & make a prayer of repentance sometime before their last breath. And the frequent practice of christians telling people they are going to hell.
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  3. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    I Googled "Crazy things christians say" & most links on the 1st 3 pages were to christian webpages or videos talking about crazy things christians say.
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  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Do you think people have a right to know that ''gay marriage'' is a sham, and the real agenda is to get rid of it, along with the conventional family set up? According to Masha Gessen.

    Also, do you think the people have a right to hear the ''homosexual agenda'' according to Michael Swift?

    We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.

    Women, you cry for freedom. You say you are no longer satisfied with men; they make you unhappy. We, connoisseurs of the masculine face, the masculine physique, shall take your men from you then. We will amuse them; we will instruct them; we will embrace them when they weep. Women, you say you wish to live with each other instead of with men. Then go and be with each other. We shall give your men pleasures they have never known because we are foremost men too, and only one man knows how to truly please another man; only one man can understand the depth and feeling, the mind and body of another man.

    All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men.

    All homosexuals must stand together as brothers; we must be united artistically, philosophically, socially, politically and financially. We will triumph only when we present a common face to the vicious heterosexual enemy.

    If you dare to cry faggot, fairy, queer, at us, we will stab you in your cowardly hearts and defile your dead, puny bodies.

    We shall write poems of the love between men; we shall stage plays in which man openly caresses man; we shall make films about the love between heroic men which will replace the cheap, superficial, sentimental, insipid, juvenile, heterosexual infatuations presently dominating your cinema screens. We shall sculpt statues of beautiful young men, of bold athletes which will be placed in your parks, your squares, your plazas. The museums of the world will be filled only with paintings of graceful, naked lads.

    Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable and de rigueur, and we will succeed because we are adept at setting styles. We will eliminate heterosexual liaisons through usage of the devices of wit and ridicule, devices which we are skilled in employing.

    We will unmask the powerful homosexuals who masquerade as heterosexuals. You will be shocked and frightened when you find that your presidents and their sons, your industrialists, your senators,your mayors, your generals, your athletes, your film stars, your television personalities, your civic leaders, your priests are not the safe, familiar, bourgeois, heterosexual figures you assumed them to be. We are everywhere; we have infiltrated your ranks. Be careful when you speak of homosexuals because we are always among you; we may be sitting across the desk from you; we may be sleeping in the same bed with you.

    There will be no compromises. We are not middle-class weaklings. Highly intelligent, we are the natural aristocrats of the human race, and steely-minded aristocrats never settle for less. Those who oppose us will be exiled.

    We shall raise vast private armies, as Mishima did, to defeat you. We shall conquer the world because warriors inspired by and banded together by homosexual love and honor are invincible as were the ancient Greek soldiers.

    The family unit-spawning ground of lies, betrayals, mediocrity, hypocrisy and violence--will be abolished. The family unit, which only dampens imagination and curbs free will, must be eliminated. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory. They will be bonded together in communal setting, under the control and instruction of homosexual savants.

    All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. We adhere to a cult of beauty, moral and esthetic. All that is ugly and vulgar and banal will be annihilated. Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.

    The exquisite society to emerge will be governed by an elite comprised of gay poets. One of the major requirements for a position of power in the new society of homoeroticism will be indulgence in the Greek passion. Any man contaminated with heterosexual lust will be automatically barred from a position of influence. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men.

    "We shall rewrite history, history filled and debased with your heterosexual lies and distortions. We shall portray the homosexuality of the great leaders and thinkers who have shaped the world. We will demonstrate that homosexuality and intelligence and imagination are inextricably linked, and that homosexuality is a requirement for true nobility, true beauty in a man.

    "We shall be victorious because we are fueled with the ferocious bitterness of the oppressed who have been forced to play seemingly bit parts in your dumb, heterosexual shows throughout the ages. We too are capable of firing guns and manning the barricades of the ultimate revolution.

    Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.

    Now then. How batshit crazy is that?

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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    This is not the thread for that. Hopefully, a moderator will delete it or start a new thread with it.
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    I think it is the yang to MR's ying.

  9. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    I get you, Jan. What's your source though? You didn't write that yourself, did you? I agree with your concept: nevertheless, I think this whole thread belongs in the cesspool as well as all of MR's paranormal woo.He can raise good philosophical questions when he is being himself, but his anti-Christian cut-and-paste pieces and his blurry monster videos should be posted in the cesspool, and never anywhere else. I don't understand how the moderators allow a thread whose sole and obvious purpose is to offend people.
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    In 1987, Michael Swift was asked to contribute an editorial piece to GCN, an important gay, left-wing community magazine. Look it up.

    “This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor...”

    ...this was the preface to the whole of that essay.

  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    It is not a frequent practice, at least in normal countries and it is untrue that Christians necessarily believe everyone goes to hell who is not a Christian. You seem to have been talking to fundamentalist Protestants, some of whom, I think, do believe that.
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    The subject of this thread sails close to the wind on being gratuitously offensive to Christians,
    but perhaps it has been let go in the interests of free speech.
    My first thought on seeing the thread was that it was offensive,
    but I made no comment because I thought it was worth discussing.

    I hope that people will not get the idea that this is generally acceptable.
    Unless I am wrong, and it is generally acceptable.
    Mods? Input please.

    When you take people as a group and make a general remark about all of them,
    that is a prejudice.
    Even if it is something good, it is still a prejudice.
    Example "All Chinese are good mathematicians".

    Avoid it. What you are saying is nonsense.

    So long as MR's paranormal posts are in the correct sub-forums, then they are valid posts.
    I've seen a few people on sf, some of them moderators, saying that posts in the fringe sections
    must meet rules of credibility and proof.
    If they could do that, they wouldn't need to post in the fringe section, would they?

    Either have the sections, or don't.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  13. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    I've said the same before in this thread, but went unheeded my the OP. If anything it riled him up all over again. Without trying to find my earlier post, I know that I must have said (or meant) that I was 12 years in Catholic school with the nuns, I've been to Mass countless times ( if not always regularly) and this 'everyone besides us is going to burn' concept has never ever come up. As for other faiths being discussed, Judaism certainly is mentioned. One can hardly read from the Old Testament, or about Peter, Paul or Jesus and not taste the Jewish flavor of them. So that's just natural, and was in no way pejorative. Even after 9/11 no priest in his homily has remarked on Islam that I remember, and I am sure I would for the novelty of the thing. We did, however, study Islam as an aspect of our high school social studies classes, in connection with the larger topic of The Middle East. No one had anything bad to say about it. I am quite sure. Protestantism is resoundingly ignored. I don't know how I first even learned of Martin Luther and the gang, but I can tell you it wasn't under the wing of the Catholic Church. Same goes for homosexuality. Sure, us boys in the schoolyard were always calling each other faggots and queers, but before high school they were meaningless cuss words to us. Even in sex education classes with the lay biology teacher or gym teacher, homosexuality was never discussed. Not hushed up, just ignored not because it was controversial, but because it was on no great concern to any of us.

    So how is it that I come to read at a Science Forum, (the religious sub-forum, but a Science forum, nonetheless) and have to see endless drivel on how ignorant, fascist and homophobic Christians are. I am told we are bigots, and this is the part where I get confused, that somehow makes it all right for the OP to make bigoted statements himself, and to do so repeatedly because he feels he's been oppressed. He even has allies and supporters.

    All of this has already been said around and around in this thread and still it is not in the cesspool. If the moderators agree that Christianity is worse than Nazism and that homosexuality deserves all the support it can get from them, that is their right, but how is cutting and pasting nonsense from ridiculously ignorant people who suppose they are followers of Jesus Christ a viable thread? I thought this sub-forum was to discuss religions of all kinds, not to spam anti-religious feeling. And any attempt to discuss or defend religion is met with more vitriol, hate-speech and more spam. Surely a person's right to spam (I mean, speak) freely can be curtailed when the objective is clearly to offend and just as bigoted as the fringe quotes it pretends to be fighting against.

    Cesspool it, I say.
  14. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    I am complete agreement with you, Google sure is a good search engine, takes you right where you want to go!
  15. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    Say, let's take this thread to its logical, extreme conclusion. Surely the craziest Christian of all would have to be its founder, who was executed for inciting insurrection.

    Golly, but the man knew how to stir people up!
  16. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    I'm sure that was precisely its intention. The whole thread is kind of a 'fuck you' directed at "religion" in general and at Christians in particular.

    I generally favor the laissez-faire moderation approach and have said so. This thread started out awfully close to the limit of what I'd have tolerated though. But it's very much a judgement call and I don't really want to criticize Kittamaru.

    Yeah, that's the thing, it's an argument for letting these things run out a bit to see where they go. Things can oftentimes be kind of self-correcting. If somebody posts something objectionable, then somebody else is going to be right along to object. That happened here. The subsequent discussion might be more interesting and valuable than the original rant.

    Those kind of faulty generalizations are common in everyday thought, especially on the internet (where people feel that there are no repercussions for anything they say, so they get lazy, self-indulgent and perhaps a little stupid).

    I heartily agree with that. Again, it's self-correcting. If somebody posts something incredible in a 'fringe' forum, somebody else will probably be right along to express their disbelief in it. (The religion forum works the same way.)

    Actually, I'm sympathetic to what MR's doing when he makes his paranormal posts. He wants to think that the universe around us is more amazing and transcendent than most people give it credit for being. I tend to feel the same way. And MR's interested in what might be called 'anomalies' in our current understanding. I'm something of a 'Fortean' myself, so I share that interest.

    I think that the 'fringe' sections are less problematic than the straight science sections.

    If Sciforums attracts a lay readership, people who lack formal training in the sciences, then how in the world are board participants supposed to satisfy these "rules of credibility and proof"?

    In practice, it often seems to turn into arguments from authority, and that's a little troubling.
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    IOW, it was a satirical article designed to mimic the accusations homophobes make about gay people. Makes total sense now..

    "A satirical article by Michael Swift which appeared in the Gay Community News in February 1987 entitled "Gay Revolutionary" describes a scenario in which homosexual men dominate American society and suppress all things heterosexual. This was reprinted in Congressional Record without the opening line: "This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."[24]

    The term is sometimes used satirically as a counterfoil by people who would normally find this term offensive, such as the spoof agenda found on the Betty Bowers satirical website,[25] and when Bishop Gene Robinson declared that "Jesus is the agenda, the homosexual agenda in the Episcopal Church".[26][27] On an episode of The Daily Show, Jon Stewart defined the gay agenda as "gay marriage, civil rights protection, Fleet Week expanded to Fleet Year, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) assistance for when it's raining men, Kathy Griffin to host everything and a nationwide ban on pleated pants."
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Like calling all gays sodomites? Like calling all non-Christians sinners who deserve to burn in hell?
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Who was it aimed at?
    How are everyday folk supposed understand that it was not an agenda?

  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Homophobes who accuse gay people of having the very agenda he lampooned. Homophobic Christians have been quoting this article ever since 1987 as proof of some agenda. He kinda proved his point.

    "The 1987 essay was written after nearly two decades of relentless hostile opposition from religious groups while gay and lesbian people sort to change laws that classed them as criminals and discriminated against them in areas such as employment and housing. Groups such as Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority, James Dobson's Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America, Family Research Council, Pat Robertson's The Christian Coalition and Anita Bryant's Save our Children campaign being the most well known.

    After years of cruel and hurtful lies being told about gay and lesbian people including claims that we recruit and we will take over the world unless we are stopped, Michael Swift wrote this piece in response. It (tongue in cheek) describes a scenario in which homosexual men dominate American society and suppress all things heterosexual. It was a joke. No gay or lesbian people since 1987 have used it as a blueprint for takeover. The majority wouldn't even know of it's existence.

    Nearly 30 years later religious conservatives still quote this text, but they always omit the vital first line, which sets the context for the piece.

    "This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."

    Every version of this essay found on Christian websites and books always fail to mention this important fact. This is not and has never been the gay agenda.

    Dean's professionally produced video quotes Michael Swifts article as fact with clever images to reinforce the fear-mongering message Dean wants to portray.

    To Dean, as a Christian, I would like to remind you of a couple of bible verses. Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" and Exodus 23:1 "Do not spread false reports". Either you haven't done your research about the piece you quoted or you have intentionally used it manipulatively to incite fear and anti-gay activism. Whichever it is, both are inappropriate and un-Christian. The latter is evil."
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    It is a very frequent practice. I have no idea what you think is a normal country. I did not say christians necessarily believe that. Yet without it, what is left of christianity. You seem to have been talking to Martians.
  23. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    I see from this that you have learned nothing, and still insists on inflicting us with your bigotry. No one here on this forum ever called gays sodomites. So why start and continue a deliberately hate-speech flaming cut-and-paste stupid remarks thread? No one is interested in your bigoted opinions.

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