Cultural appropriation

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by birch, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    your assumption takes into account no changes. though you believe my pov is based on arrogance, it's really not. it's what i've picked up about society in general. your viewpoint is more textbook, artificial, assumptive/stereotypical. mine is from actual observation over years and surroundings/interactions and not just me. observation is taking into account others opinions and attitudes in live form to get a consensus of the general attitudes of society.

    the problem with your examples are that its strawmen that has no real context or gradient because asians are less of a demographic and an asian being racist towards blacks in america is much less likely than the other way around. pampered priviledged are those who get away with things they should not or believe they are entitled. it is not necessarily about status or position.

    no. not in today's world. this statement right here tells me you do not know what you are talking about. you assume others dislike or are more racist towards blacks just because of their appearance/complexion/race but that's not true. again, you don't understand how the majority of americans percieve and that blacks are as american as apple pie.

    for instance, assuming you are white, there are white women who would find you unattractive because you are pale and perceived as less masculine etc. you are not aware of mainstream society and what makes them tick. this is based on your blind and simple assumption that tanner or darker automatically means more prejudice. that is not true. african-americans, hispanics, middle-easterners, indians etc are considered more attractive, stronger and more masculine for men etc than east asians and often even whites as they are considered more exotic.

    one glaring aspect of the racist litmus test is the media. whites, blacks, hispanics/middle-eastern/mixed diaspora of america is acceptable/relatable to the majority american public than an east asian. that makes sense as they are the majority.

    ridiculous point. this is out of context which indicates further you assume but don't know what you are talking about. most hawaiians are generally concentrated in hawaii out in the middle of the pacific along with asians so they are not going to experience as much racism in hawaii. do you get that point? though because they are polynesian, they do have a more ambiguous appearance than east asians and could pass for multiple nationalities/ethnicities. hawaiians are generally friendly and more tolerant than whites, hispanics, blacks, and middle-eastern and they are not as racist toward asians either so they get along fairly well. i've never had a hawaiian be racist towards me. clue? asians aren't racist toward hawaiians either. why would they be?

    furthermore, i already pointed out before that asians who have grown up or live in areas that have more asians usually experience less racism but that is very limited, usually parts of cali and hawaii. that is a fraction of america.

    again, you don't know what you are talking about but sure that you do and my pov is because i'm asian etc. even if that is the case, it's still more realistic and accurate of general society than your unchanging textbook version of your unconscious belief of darker automatically equals more racism and that's the only basis it occurs. unrealistic and asians are disliked for their appearance, customs, foreign stigma etc, even moreso especially in western society.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, but that's silly. Racism against black people in the US is severe, dominant, and pervasive in the US. It doesn't matter how "American" they are.
     
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  5. birch Valued Senior Member

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    you mean the rocky and tentative dichotomy of police brutality and racial profiling of black males? otherwise, how is it 'severe, dominant and pervasive'? what does that have to do with the rest of american culture and society? you didn't know that americans love african americans and their culture? you think good ol' boys are representative of american culture? they are dying.

    they are pervasive in media, culture, sports and politics; that is america. very few people have a problem with african-americans and especially starting from the generation of the sixties onwards have no problem with african-americans. african americans culture is liked so much that others emulate them, even by whites and even more than any other culture in america. there are more people who prefer r&b/pop/rap/hip-hop fusion than country music, for instance. only white nationalists/kkk types have a problem with it but they hate everyone not white.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  7. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    But, unfortunately, this is the future. It is the future in the West too. The technology how to do this is developed, already years ago, using the excuse of fighting child porn. Now the anti-Russian hysteria will be used to apply this to Russian information sources like RT and Sputnik. Ok, the big US firms will not be blocked in the West because they are US firms, and the vassals are not allowed to block the ruler. But they now start to censor themselves. But the Russian and Chinese firms will be blocked, whenever their popularity rises enough to become an easily accessible place for those censored by the US firms. And you will not recognize this at all. For you, the US firms will define the whole World, and everything else will be like North Korea.

    This is, in fact, a sort of technological law. If censorship is technically possible, it will be used. The best one can hope for is what we have - and what the Chinese have too. There will be a small group of people who know the information technology good enough to use it in a secure way. Their computers will be encrypted, their communications too, to communicate whatever they like - racist, fascist, sexist, pornographic, however bad. They are the elite, the free people in the New World. And they will be a minority. The majority will be controlled by the Big Media bosses. They will decide what is censored, and what is allowed.

    In a little more totalitarian world, encryption will be forbidden, anonymous or pseudonymous communication too. Actually, I tend to think that this is only a little bit more totalitarian. Because for the majority, there will be no difference, and you have to become part of a small elite of outsiders to be able to have more freedom.
     
  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077

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    https://nextshark.com/danny-chen-suicide-2017/

    he was racially targeted. as usual, it was reported several times and nothing was done. so it's only those who just have darker complexions who are targeted for racism and abuse? bullshit. asians who have grown up in the west know that is not true. anyone who is sane or honest knows that is not true. is it inconcievable that a group comprised of white, hispanic and black could target an asian because they are viewed as less american? that's not isolated, that's actually quite common but this was just a case where it got national attention because he was so distraught he killed himself. hello??

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-chu-military-hazing-20160510-snap-story.html

    this one is sad too. he should have just stayed in college. it doesn't indicate race had any part in it but it could have been. since he took his own life and did not keep a diary of any sort or no one is saying otherwise or telling on themselves or eachother, it's impossible to say.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/...ed-a-culture-of-brutality-in-the-marines.html

    they identified him easily by his name. this all started with 9/11 and then with subsequent bombings in western countries so it made middle-easterners a target for scapegoating. prior to that, he wouldn't even be noticed. same with hispanics, specifically those who are mexican, because of the loss of american jobs and more influx of illegals as well as americans having to accomodate the language and the burning of the american flag which caused hispanics to be more on the radar of resentment.

    the only reason i mentioned that asians are the target of more 'racial' prejudice is because i even remember in the military, that whites, blacks and those of ambiguous appearance (including middle-eastern, indian etc) were not targeted as much as east asians for racial stereotyping or slurs. no one said a damn thing about blacks or hispanics o rmuslims or like appearance/passing the radar so i don't want to hear that bullshit they were more oppressed. that also translated in general culture as well. the racism against asians due to their appearance (more northeast asian) which is easily noticeable has always made them an easier target all along.

    for example, the racism against being asian (especially looking east asian) was so pervasive that it was known within the asian community that those who could pass for not being asian such as some southeast asians like filipinos would not admit it and say they were hispanic so they wouldn't be so stigmatized. what does that say about general americana?

    my observation is an honest assessment over time, taking into account political changes that have hispanics and middle-eastern in the mix as well currently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  11. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    double post
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You have my sympathy. But the idea that this compares in severity with the situation faced by black people is not realistic.
    You are delusional.
    They are the people who gave you the current US Federal Government - House, Senate, President, and Supreme Court. A majority of the Statehouse governments. A majority of the county and town governments. They're your government, seven times in ten, wherever in America you are. 63 million of them voted in the last national election, 2016. They ain't dead.
    There are police in every town, prisons in every State. Every black male in America has been affected, significantly. And increasingly, black females - check out the prison stats.
    That means every black family. That means every school with black children in it. Every city with black people living in it - every large city in the US. Every taxpayer of every large city in the US.

    And that's just one issue. Just one.

    Then there are the schools. The pollution. The infrastructure.

    Try this one: health care. America has the broken, dysfunctional, and incredibly expensive system it has primarily - the single most significant factor both historically and current - because a large enough fraction of white people refused and still refuse to provide standard medical care for black people.

    Seriously - that's been the single biggest obstacle to some kind of socialized insurance or care provision, as is necessary for universal care at reasonable cost: White racial bigotry against black people.
    A lot more people like Chinese food than English food, as well. And Japanese-style cars. And Kung-Fu type fighting in movies has pretty much taken over from wimpy-ass nose punching (look at the big fight scenes in old movies, before the martial arts invasion).
    So?
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,316
    In another thread here, something relevant to both cultural appropriation and racial bigotry came up.

    The originating culture was that of the landed gentry of England and Europe, the new culture was that of unspecified Caribbean Island black people, the exact candidate for that thread's topic was the double surname, and it seems to have been not an appropriation but an adoption. The question was why, how, etc.

    So I thought of another example, the debutante cotillon, and posted a couple of links from a quick netsearch.

    Which is how I ran into this:
    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-h...oes-a-family-choose-to-present-their-daughter
    That is from 2012, and it purports to be a reasonable and informative introduction to Savannah, Georgia's culture of debutante cotillons - right now, modern day. White upper class cultural custom, of exactly the kind adopted by upwardly mobile black people in Savannah, among other places. In other words, an ordinary and kindly meant few paragraphs of prose, something not presented as exceptional or containing anything unusual.

    And embedded in it - without qualification or editorial comment, as I described "ordinary", is a link, this one, to an event from 2005/2006 - modern times:
    http://www.forgottenvictims.com/Jennifer Ross Update 1.htm

    Have a read.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...al-to-family-of-dead-chinese-american-soldier

    "Danny said ... (they're) very young so maybe it's very bad for them" in the future if they have a record, his aunt, Lucy Chen, recalled him saying. Tapping her chest, she said of Chen: "The heart is very good."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    used to racist jokes (sick society that you have to get used to it) and he was conscientious thinking more of them or thinking if he is fair, others will respond accordingly or at least leave you alone. i learned that doesn't work long ago. pfft.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/marines-20-drill-instructors-knew-about-recruit-hazing-n644996


    he looks like such a sweet guy too. it's almost always the good-hearted and most worthy ones that get most bullied.

    i'll be honest, when i was going through military training, i noticed most were not the sensitive or humane type. it's not the place for such people generally. i thought they were kind of weird in how insensitive they were just in general as if it didn't even register with them. i only made it because i was philosophical about it as projected time frame that i would have to put up with it but i was definitely aware that it was nonetheless abuse that was used as part of the training. most seemed to think it wasn't that.

    but to have to put up with that abuse and hazing as part of your military service after is not part of the training and nor is attacks/being singled out due to race or religion etc during boot camp or after when assigned to your duty station.

    i think especially with these type of suicides is that for a young person who has embraced the country as their own because they grew up in it and realizing that it doesn't accept them or degrades them is demoralizing and disheartening. most probably thought that kids were just kids growing up and things would change when they got older and that's not always the case. especially when they go into the military for patriotic reasons (the country they only know) and expecting to be accepted, that's a huge cruel slap on the face as well as heart.

    i hope these people went to a better world if it exists somehow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    8,788
    Wow.

    Wow.

    This is a case of the grass is greener, writ racial.
     
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077


    i think most of his criticisms from his videos are actually constructive. it is to help to improve. to tell a country that everything is okay or flatter them when it's not is not a true ally just as much as one that degrades what shouldn't be. to point out or recognize a problem is the first step in changing it, even if it's embarassing. to stick a national head in the sand just for pride's sake is not doing any favors. you can tell by discerning whether those criticisms are about harmful aspects or policies of a country period, then it's important. even if other countries have people who are insecure (because all countries have them), it is wisest to take it into consideration instead of dismissing it.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Here - you have a problem, and this illustrates it:
    That is a bizarre delusion. You are oblivious to some basic and overwhelmingly significant features of the world around you in America.
     
  18. psikeyhackr Valued Senior Member

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    1,050
    Doesn't this mean that Chinese and Japanese men wearing neckties in their countries should be lynched?

    And the women wearing high heel shoes should be pushed down the stairs?

    LOL
     

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