Did Nothing Create Everything?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So, what stories do you believe if you admittedly don't know anything?
     
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  3. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    It's one thing knowing anything, it's another thing randomly creating complex situations.
     
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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Entertain me will you.

    Are you saying I randomly created a complex situation, and if so, why is the situation complex?
     
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  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Possibly. Very easy, and normally the best conversations.
     
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    That's... um... kinda' cryptic and I'm not smart enough to respond meaningfully.
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not that complicated. Random thoughts are my favourite.
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    ...And you want my response to be?
     
  11. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, I want you, to have a great day!!!
     
  12. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Thank You for that video! Very well done!
    I wish we could send all blood sucking preachers to jail! They are like vampires! They feed off the life of others! And they destroy the lives of so many for their own profit. This should be illegal, and they should all be locked up!

    They are clear proof that Evil exists, that it is not just a human concept.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe you should see a doctor. For drugs. I like drugs.

    That would be assuming you actually liked the video and are not just lying.
     
  14. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I did like the video, because it exposes evil men, those preachers are wicked! Mike Murdock and Robert Tilton and the others are evil wicked men. They are all proof that evil is real! They make me angry!

    Look up Robert Tilton on YouTube, and look for the farting preacher videos. They will give you a laugh!!!

    They are a hoot!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  15. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Chemical reactions. H2 and O2 don't randomly form H2O or H2O2. They follow the path of minimum energy.
     
  16. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Gold star. Well done.
     
  17. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    The Hypothesis is that...

    The Mountain of God, Horeb, Mt Sinai (3 names for the same mountain) is located in the ancient land of Midian, within Saudi Arabia today.

    Many ancient maps show Midian in Saudi Arabia. Regions can be given the same name as a well known city in the area. "Midian" and "Madyan" and "Maghair Sho'aib" ("caves of jethro") are all ancient names for one city in Saudi Arabia that is called Al-Bad today.


    According to Josephus, in The Antiquities of the Jews...

    MOSES FLED OUT OF EGYPT INTO MIDIAN

    Josephus wrote that Moses fled Egypt and
    “came to the city Midian, which lay upon the Red Sea”.
    (Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews II, Chapter 11, 1)


    AND THAT MT SINAI WAS THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN THE AREA

    Josephus wrote that Mt. Sinai is

    "the highest of all the mountains thereabout,"
    (Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews II, Chapter 12, 1)

    and is

    "the highest of all the mountains that are in that country, and is
    not only very difficult to be ascended by men, on account of its vast altitude
    but because of the sharpness of its precipices".

    (Josephus, The Antiquities of the Jews III, Chapter 5, 1)

    According to Philo, On the Life of Moses...
    Philo wrote that Mt Sinai was the highest mountain in the area...

    (70) "For, having gone up into the loftiest and most sacred mountain in that district in accordance with the divine commands, a mountain which was very difficult of access and very hard to ascend,"
    (Philo, On the Life of Moses, II, XIV, 70)


    The highest mountain in Ancient Midian in Saudi Arabia is Jabal al-Lawz (which means "mountain of almonds")
    (Google Earth search Al-Bad, Jabal al-Lawz)

    Is there any evidence for the Exodus located in this mountain range?
    I will provide on the ground and satellite images for your review...

    ...so you can decide for yourself.
     
  18. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    May I ask you a question? Ignore if you like.

    Did nothing create everything? If yes why. If no why?

    2 questions.
     
  19. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Here is my crazy theory... ...decide what you think?

    I think that there are basically two simple theories, or possibilities.

    The first theory is that in the beginning there was Nothing. Absolutely Nothing. The second theory says that in the beginning there was Something. You and I know that only one of these theories can be correct, but which one is it? Which one is true?

    OK, so the first theory says that in the beginning there was Nothing.

    Well, let’s take a look and see if this is possible, see if this is reasonable. An illustration may help us out here.

    Let's say you have a very large closed box. This box is locked, permanently, and has no openings or holes of any kind in its walls. Excluding the walls of the box itself, there is Nothing, Absolutely Nothing inside our box. No dust at all. Not a particle of anything, known or unknown. No air. No light at all. It's a sealed box that is pitch black inside.

    OK, let's say your goal is to get Something---anything at all---into the box. But the rule is: you can't use anything from outside the box to do it.

    So what would you do?

    Well, what if You try to create a spark inside the box? Then the box would have light in it, even for just a moment. That would qualify as Something wouldn’t it?

    Yes, but You are outside the box. So that is not allowed.

    But, what if you could teleport Something into the box, like in Star Trek?

    Sorry, but again, that's not allowed, because you'd be using one or more things from outside the box. In this case your “Something”, whatever it is, would be outside the box and the Transporter device would be as well.

    Here again is the dilemma: you have to get Something inside the box using only what is inside the box. And, in this case, what's in the box is Nothing.

    Well, maybe a tiny particle of Something will just show up inside our box if given enough Time and Chance. Maybe it will just “spontaneously generate” inside there. That sounds possible, doesn’t it? After all, can’t virtually anything happen if given enough Time?

    That brings up the First real problem with our theory: Time.

    Time by itself doesn't do anything. Things do happen over time, but it's not time that makes them happen. For example, if you wait 15 minutes for cookies to bake, it's not the 15 minutes that bakes them, it's the heat in the oven. If you just placed them on the counter for 15 minutes, they are not going to bake, are they?

    In our analogy, we've got a fully enclosed box with absolutely Nothing in it. Waiting 15 minutes will not, in and of itself, change the situation. Well, you say, what if we wait eons? An eon is merely a bunch of 15-minute segments all pressed together. If you waited an eon with your cookies on the counter, would the eon bake them?

    The Second problem in our theory is Chance.

    Is there really any possibility that chance could make something appear in our box? Well, if we are thinking of chance as a supposed agent or cause of change, then absolutely not. Chance has no power to do anything or change anything in any way because it simply is not anything. To be more precise, it is nothing. Nothing cannot do something. Nothing is not. Chance has no power because it has no being. It has no existence. It has no more chance of doing something than Nothing has of doing something. There is absolutely no possibility that chance could ever make anything appear in our box. And even if we combine chance and time wouldn’t we still only have Nothing doing Nothing over a very long period of time?

    The Third problem is this: why would anything just "show up" in the empty box without a cause, any cause?

    Remember, there is no cause of any kind inside our box. There is Nothing inside the box at all. So what could ever stop that from remaining the case? There is Nothing inside the box to cause Something to "show up."

    But wait a minute, couldn't Something just create itself?

    Well… the short answer is No! Self-creation is a logical and rational impossibility. For Something to actually create itself, it would have to be before it is. In other words, it would have to exist, before it exists. And that is scientifically impossible. It is impossible for solids, liquids, and gasses. It is impossible for atoms and subatomic particles. It is impossible for any form of energy, light, or heat. It is impossible for any form of life, simple or complex. Nothing anywhere or anytime, can create itself.

    But, hang on, what about a tiny particle of Something, say an atom? Wouldn't that have a greater chance of materializing in our empty box than Something gigantic like the earth?

    That brings up the Fourth problem: Size.

    We need to remember here that size is relative. Something is only “tiny” or “gigantic” in relation to something else. An atom is indeed tiny compared to the earth, but the earth is also tiny when compared to the entire universe. Does that fact really make it any easier for the earth to materialize out of nothing?

    Even an atom would appear to be gigantic when compared to one of its own subatomic particles? And wouldn’t any subatomic particle, no matter how small, be gigantic when compared to Nothing which has no size at all?

    Now if you don’t think that the earth could just pop into existence from nothing then you must conclude the very same thing for a single atom. For size really is not the issue.

    The question is not whether something large or small in relation to something else could “show up”, but whether or not any thing of any size could just "show up" in our sealed, empty box. The real likelihood of any tiny particle materializing without a cause is no different than the earth itself materializing out of nothing without a cause! For neither one is possible.

    Now let's stretch our analogy a little further, literally. Let's take our box of Nothing and remove its walls. And let's extend the box so it goes on infinitely in all directions. Now an infinity of Nothing is all there is, period. Like our original box, this Infinity has no light, no dust, no particles of any kind, no air, no elements, no molecules. It is absolute Nothingness. This Nothingness has no nature, no causal powers, no time, no space, no change of any kind, or tendencies toward anything whatsoever. In fact, we can truly call it Absolutely Nothing.

    So here's the big question: if originally--bazillions of years ago--there was Absolutely Nothing, wouldn't there be Absolutely Nothing right now? For Something--no matter how small--cannot come from Absolutely Nothing.

    However, something does exist. Actually, many things exist. You, for example, are something that exists, a very important something. Therefore, the very fact that you exist is proof that Absolutely Nothing never existed. Now, if Absolutely Nothing never existed, then Something has always existed, and could never have not been.

    Something is eternal.
     
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  20. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    The Short Version…

    Definition:
    Absolute Nothingness is the complete absence of the existence of all things whether in the form of matter, energy, space, or anything else known or unknown. It is the total absence of existence.

    Hypothesis:
    No real and actual thing can come from Absolute Nothingness for it has no existence, no energy, no matter, no space, or anything else known or unknown from which to create it. No real and actual thing can really and actually “spontaneously generate” or create itself from Absolute Nothingness. To do this it would have to either pre-exist itself or be created by something else. If it pre-exists itself then “it” actually exists and we do not have Absolute Nothingness. If something else created it then that “something else” actually exists and we do not have Absolute Nothingness. If a first cause of any kind exists then that “first cause” actually exists and again we do not have Absolute Nothingness. If there are fluctuations of space or energy, or the pre-existence of particles, or the pre-existence of anything of any kind whatsoever then it is not Absolute Nothingness.

    Now, if Absolute Nothingness ever existed, then there would be Absolute Nothingness right now. For Something cannot come from Absolute Nothingness. However, Something does exist. In fact You exist. Therefore, the very fact that You exist is proof that Absolute Nothingness never existed. Now, if Absolute Nothingness never existed, then Something has always existed, and could never have not been.

    Something is eternal.

    What Do You Think?
     
  21. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I kinda think that, Absolute Nothing would have to be the Absence of Everything. Not equivalent to Everything. Perhaps?
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The definition of absolute nothingness is that it doesn't exist... so therefore it no-exists. (Exists because it doesn't)
    A paradox if you like....
    " The exact center of anything does not exist, yet there it is "
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Let's assume that's true.

    We don't know that there was ever Absolute Nothingness. It is possible, for instance, that there's a multiverse that contains many different "bubble" universes. Such a multiverse could have existed before our universe came into being, and it might exist long after our universe has died.

    In our own universe, we also know of things that pop in and out of existence seemingly from "nothing", though perhaps not Absolute Nothingness you're talking about. Quantum particles appear and disappear all the time, coming from "nothing". Maybe at one point there was a similar kind of "nothing" - a quantum nothingness - and its random fluctuation led to our current universe.

    But let's assume you're right and there had to be a Something to enable our universe to exist. Now all you have to do is to show that the Something was the Christian God that you want the Something to be, then you'll be done.

    It looks to me like you still have a big task ahead of you, making that leap from an unspecified Something to your God.
     

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