...DID we go to the moon?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by GeoffP, May 14, 2013.

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  1. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Stop playing dumb. Or maybe it comes natural - those two factors have been completely missed by him, so his analysis is completely flawed.

    Yes, I decided, you got your butt kicked.
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  5. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member


    Of course there's no atmosphere to slow it. He doesn't say there is in his video. What's your point?

    How would that affect anything? Go into detail so we know what your point is.
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Ten things you may not know about the Apollo 11 mission of Lt Col Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin which allowed man to walk on the Moon for the first time on July 20, 1969.

    s the Eagle landing module was descending towards the Moon’s surface, Armstrong and Aldrin realised they had overshot the intended landing spot by miles and were heading for an area strewn with boulders. In manoeuvring to avoid hitting the rocks, they came to within a minute of running out of fuel for the descent and having to abort the mission.
    After the Eagle landed, Aldrin, a Presbyterian, recited from the Bible and took wine and a small wafer from a home communion kit given to him by his pastor.
    Neil Armstrong may have been the first man to walk on the Moon, but Buzz Aldrin was the first man to urinate there. While millions watched on live television, Aldrin relieved himself a tube fitted inside his space suit.
    The astronauts had trouble planting the American flag in the Moon’s hard surface, worried it would fall over on live television. As they blasted off, Aldrin later recalled, the Stars and Stripes flag was knocked over in the blast from Eagle’s ascent engines.
    The mineral, armalcolite, discovered during the first Moon landing and later found at various locations on Earth, was named after the three Apollo 11 astronauts, Neil ARMstrong, Buzz ALdrin and Michael COLlins.
    When the astronauts took off their helmets after their moonwalk, they noticed a strong smell, which Armstrong described as “wet ashes in a fireplace” and Aldrin as “spent gunpowder”. It was the smell of moondust brought in on their boots.
    After returning to the landing module, Aldrin accidentally broke the switch used to activate the ascent engines. After initial concern they managed to activate the switch using a ball-point pen.
    An estimated 600 million people watched the Apollo 11 landing live on television, a world record until 750 million people watched the wedding of the Prince of Wales and Lady Diana Spencer in 1981. (Source: Guinness World Records)
    After returning to Earth the astronauts were put in quarantine for three weeks for fear they may have brought back unknown pathogens from the Moon.
    The Apollo space programme cost was given as $25.4 billion, around $150 billion (£93bn) in today’s money.
    One of President Nixon’s speechwriters had prepared an address entitled: “In Event of Moon Disaster”. It began: “Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay to rest in peace.” If the launch from the Moon had failed, Houston was to close down communications and leave Armstrong and Aldrin to their death.


    Brief rundown on in my opinion, the greatest moment in human history, followed of course by 5 equally great moments.
    Once those two horrid variables of economics and politics are right, even further adventures, further afield will take place.
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    What is the most stupid conspiracy theory you've ever heard?

    [1] The Moon Landings were Faked:

    [2] 9/11 was a Governemnt conjob:

    [3] The Holucaust did not happen:

    Anyone want to add any more?
    I reckon those three top the list though for the most blinkered insane responses to observed moments of reality.
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Eleven Dumb Conspiracy Theories:

    Whenever there is a disaster or notable tragedy in the world, the conspiracy theorists come crawling out of their darkened dens to offer up incredibly implausible explanations. The worst one, of late, was in the wake of the Boston Marathon bombings. There was a theory going around, and widespread it was too, that the whole thing had been staged and all the folk who lost limbs were amputee actors. Really? Really? And the lone gunmen is almost always a CIA mind-controlled drone, activated by some remote control... and so on and so forth. We've all heard that it was George W. Bush who was behind the World Trade Centre holocaust.

    I started snooping about the internet for others because although I'm often appalled at the incredulous nonsense, I am also fascinated by them. I'm fascinated to read fanatical rants that are so 'out there' that they become almost entertaining.

    Here are a few doozies...

    1. J Edgar Hoover organised a hit squad made up entirely of homosexuals to assassinate JFK. The rationale was that in the wake of the hit, police would disregard the flamboyantly dressed gay people because they would not be considered capable of committing such a violent act...I actually do think that the official story is a bit bogus but I'm not buying the Rainbow Army theory.

    2. Red heads are direct descendants of aliens. Well, that one is probably true. Rebekah Brooks, Prince Harry and Ronald McDonald for starters!

    3. Sony Bono was murdered on the ski slope because he was going to run for president. Unlikely. He was probably just not looking where he was going.

    4. Man did not walk on the moon. Man walked into a Hollywood studio for a photo shoot. I like to think we did walk on the moon. It looked like fun. I would like to move to Mars so walking on the moon seems like a good precursor for that. Also, if it was just a Hollywood stunt I would have thought they'd get ET in there. It was a bit too dull for a beat-up.

    5. There is a New World Order running a global bank which aims to eliminate paper and coin currency in favour of digital banking and then one day in the not too distant future, they will shut down the system forcing citizens into slavery. It's all about the Illuminati (isn't it always?). This one is interesting. I like paper money. Particularly hundred dollar bills. I love the smell of money and I keep forgetting my online password. I will keep my money in shoe-boxes just in case. I have vivid nightmares about the Illuminati. They all have red hair!

    6. According to Christine Fitzgerald, a former confidante of Princess Diana, the late Queen of Hearts told her quite seriously that the royal family are actually shape-shifting, reptilian aliens from a galaxy far, far away. Now that is gold. I always knew there was something funny about them. No wonder they had Di murdered. That sort of info could be dangerous in the wrong hands. David Icke is a BBC journalist. He knows. He'll be next. I always loved that old TVseries V. Seems it was a documentary after all and not just a cheap American television show starring that Freddy Kruger guy.

    7. AIDS was created as a biological weapon by the US government and released in Africa in 1978. No comment.

    8. In 1947 the Roswell Army Airfield admitted that they had recovered a flying disc from some redneck field. And you know the rest... Roswell has been hiding aliens ever since. They have because I've seen the autopsy photos. I think they are harvesting aliens. Breeding them. I know the official statement said that the disc was a high altitude weather balloon. But they would say that, wouldn't they? That's just inconceivable while the alien theory is water-tight and rational.

    9. You know when you look up at the sky and see jet streams, well, they are actually chemical cocktails being sprayed on us, to keep us docile and stupid. The 'official' explanation is that they are streams of condensation but considering Australia voted for Tony Abbott, I'm not discounting the stupid chemical theory just yet.

    10. My favourite. Paul McCartney is dead and the body double has been living a pseudo Paul McCartney life since 1966. That is a cool gig. The look alike-sound alike model Paul gets to live like a billionaire and be an ex-Beatle. Why? Why? Where is the Princess Diana model and the Michael Hutchence model? Where were their look alikes? This one really proves that all conspiracy theorists are pretty much bat-shit insane.

    11. And then of course there is the one that I am going to start and that is that Russell Brand is not just a very naughty boy but also the new Messiah. Of all of the theories, I think this one is the most plausible.

    But bat-shit insane is so very entertaining and the world would be a duller place without them.


    :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
  10. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    So it would not be a matter of comparing swings between 1g and 1/6g, it becomes a matter of how a flag with that amount of surface area can free swing without atmosphere compared to one with. I am not in the least bits surprised that this whooshes over your head.

    There is less distance between the pivot points and it is anything but a simple pendulum. Detail? His analysis is based on it being a simple pendulum, it isn't. It is based on a specific length affecting a specific mass. That length is provably wrong. It is made without factoring in the major drag on a flag from air.

    Don't ask for more details, you're just chain yanking now, as well as being a major forum spammer!
  11. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    This is what I said in my original post.
    (2:36 time mark)

    The hoax-believer argument is that the flag is moving too fast. If it's moving too fast in air, it can't be in a vacuum in one sixth gravity.
    (18:50 time mark)

    Air would only slow it down.

    At a wide swinging angle that would have an effect but at the narrow angle at which the Apollo flag swings, it's negligible.
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

    If you and I were presenting theories in a debating hall I have little doubt who would be escorted out.
  13. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    The spam that gets you banned - see CQ!

    What a moronic argument. It isn't in air!!! Did you miss the bus? Was your ticket punched twice? In a vacuum, that is precisely why it is able to swing faster.

    Do you even read what you type? You've basically said that on Earth the pendulum speed will be slower because of air, therefore when we account for zero air, we can see why there is a faster than expected swing on the Moon. Duh!
  14. Kaiduorkhon Registered Senior Member

    Hi Buddha! As a genetic half-breed Mongolian-Scot/Buddhist, Truly Your's, kind of represents the content of your post. Consider the following scenario:

    Two people are en conversant in a parked car adjacent to a convenience store.
    The subject is the hot weather and the fact that they are thirsty and have no money.
    The guy under the wheel suggests that the two of them go into the store and boost a six pack of beer.
    The plan is struck with the agreement that wheel man will boost the beer while passenger person distracts the clerk.
    Wheel man and passenger person successfully carry out their plan, return to the car and depart the premises, quaffing a lot of self-congratulating bubbly.

    A six pack of stolen beer equals misdemeanor theft.

    Since two (or more) persons contrived and planned ahead, to consummate the misdemeanor, it is consequently, a felony. Namely: conspiracy to steal FILL IN HERE.

    This is merely an example of how commonplace conspiracy dynamics are.

    Ostensibly, the plot thickens when the objective of two or more conspirators is to boondoggle the entire classroom, township, city, state, forum-thread and/or nation. Inevitably, more people and correspondingly more conspirators are required to effect larger parameters of conspiratorial influence.

    The difference between a business committee and a conspiracy is whether or not the gathered participants agree to break (- and then do in fact break -) the law, or not.

    The negative alternative is hardly a rare occurrence. Au contraire.

    It's as American as Stokely Carmichael.

    What the big time - mass media manipulating - conspirators (there are an abundance of very responsibly documented books and films about it) have fairly succeeded in doing is attacking the language, just as Huxley and Orwell predicted, long before most of this thread's readers were born. 'They' have installed artificial realities around their vulnerable parameters.

    Example: 'There is no "they"'.
    That is one of the ways 'they' identify themselves. They - given, unidentified conspirators - have names, addresses, telephone and SSI numbers, families and fingerprints, etceteras). They obediently adhere to denying that they fulfill their own referenced identity. In this way, 'they' disappear in a puff of so-called 'credible deniability'. Only nincompoops allude to 'they', or 'them'.

    Compliments of the behavior modified legion of - knee-kick-reflex-conditioned - nay Sayers in the public sector.

    Another example, 'they' have educated the general *public to believe that *they can escape the negative influences of violence-saturated public access television, by 'turning it off', or 'changing channels'. That's a swell dodge until you go to work or the grocery store and encounter those who don't practice that ('Great') escape.

    Giving the presently presiding alternative viewpoint of this subject their fair shakes, it certainly is entirely true that the crack-pot, whacko, druggie elements do their share of giving responsible discussions about 'them', and 'conspiracy theories', a bad name.

    Even in that valid and rightful skepticism there dwells the language and communications-slaying tactic of deliberately adding confusion to given controversies and issues, by introducing whacko, crack-pot information to the mainstream consciousness, such as the published JFK 'conspiracy theory', entitled: "JFK's Chauffer Shot the President". That is distilled, planted misinformation. Stuff that wears thinking people out ('Who Shot J.R. in Dallas? <Who cares?>)

    The bad guy's who conspired to murder the President and get away with it are still here, having conspired furthermore to effect the (*intimidated and/or paid-off) court-established fact that there is a great deal of unreleased hard evidence that will remain unreleased to the American public until 2037 A.D. (*When they can murder the President - in plain sight - and get away with it - 'they' can murder anyone and get away with it.)

    That restriction on the release of hard evidence (is no secret) regarding The Assassination of the 20th Century, is not a conspiracy. It is a telling fact about the (inevitable) conspiracy, not only to murder, but to protect the murderers of, the President. There is no statute of limitations on murder...

    Hope you haven't spilled your garbage.

    Tea - or popcorn - anyone?
  15. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    These pro-Apollo posters are trying to confuse the viewers. Everybody look at this again.

    Start watching this at the 16:40 time mark.
    "Physics of the Moon Flag"

    The flag is moving faster than it would be moving if it were in lunar gravity in a vacuum.

    This respose by David C doesn't expain the anomaly.
    The pivot point's not being on the vertical but the diagonal wouldn't make it move faster. He doesn't explain how there not being any atmosphere to slow it would make it go faster than it would in a vacuum in lunar gravity.

    NASA used a combination of slow-motion and wires to simulate lunar gravity in Apollo 15. The flag is moving faster than it should even though the footage is being shown in slow-motion.

    (2:37 time mark)

    That footage was taken on earth.
  16. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    It isn't a simple pendulum. The whole flag has the weight evenly distributed. It's a flexible material, so there is multiple complex pendulum activity. Using the longest point gives the largest time, that is deceptive. There are literally hundreds of flex points in a flag as each tiny imperceptible ripple passes its energy below making one continuous movement. These are individual flex points/pendulums and the times for these are way below 1 second. There is an average speed to be made from this system, but it isn't worked out from some stupid single pendulum. This is obvious when we see that the flag curls as it swings.

    I see you claim that speeding it up by a third makes it Earth speed, but the guy who made the video disagrees. How does that work then Einstein? The astronauts are moving in slow motion. Lmao.
  17. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    There's a noticeable difference in the body movements in these two clips.

    (first six seconds of video)


    If the second link doesn't work, you can see the footage at around the 21:00 time mark of this video.
    ("Conspiracy Theory : Did We Land on the Moon?")

    What I hypothesize is that fifty percent slow-motion was used in Apollo 11 with no wire supports. Later, they improved their methods of simulating lunar gravity and started using a combination of slow-motion and support wires (watch entire first above video). The slow-motion in the later missions might not have been exactly half-speed. It might have been sixty five or seventy percent of natural speed. It looked better but it was inconsistent with Apollo 11 footage. The inconsistency is apparent.

    According to the calculations in the video...

    "Physics of the Moon Flag"

    ...the flag is moving about twice as fast as it would move in lunar gravity (18:50 time mark of video). It would take quite a significant force to make the flag swing twice as fast as it's supposed to. Tell us how your explanation would make the flag move faster than it was supposed to.
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    FatFreddy, all the pedant nonsense on how fast flags flutter and whatever other aspect you are told to dream up by the nutters who make money from conspiracy theories and the Idiots that believe them, will not make one crap of difference to what actually happened.
    And that is Astronauts, 12 of them, set foot on the Lunar surface in the late sixties, early seventies, and that it was watched by governments around the world.

    I believe one thing...We have a few billion people on Earth, and the chances will always be, that there will be some nutters somewhere, sometime, that sees the need to make a name for him/her self, by creating ridiculious situations, knowing that there will always be some Idiots somewhere, sometime that will be gullible and stupid enough to take the bait, hook, line and sinker.
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    And then of course, we have the trolls that go from forum to forum sprouting their nonsense.
  20. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    That use the longest length available - probably more out of ignorance than deception.

    Are you just plain stupid? I ask this quite earnestly, since your brain doesn't register what I just posted. The flag is a flexible object with evenly distributed mass. There is no specific big pendulum, it is a whole series of complex, smaller pendulums. The speed of oscillation on the moon from a much smaller length is much faster than that which is claimed in your dumb video.

    For example a 0.1m length bob has 0.64 second oscillation on Earth and a 1.58 second oscillation on the Moon.

    I don't anticipate the penny will ever drop with you, after 6 years spamming the same crap all over the internet, you just simply cannot even contemplate how wrong you are.
  21. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    That is taken into account in the calculations. Start watching at the 9:00 time mark.

    "Physics of the Moon Flag"
  22. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    No it is not. Firstly he uses a stiff rod pendulum, but the flag is very flexible, so there are much smaller oscillations within it. Next, he uses the vertical drop. That is incorrect, the pivot point lies diagonally and since the movement is very small, it is almost certainly rotating predominantly on a point closer than the longest diagonal.

    Using his example webpage -


    Most of the motion looks like an average pivot point of around 30cm and flexible - this produces a 2.2 second oscillation on a fixed rod. Considering the complexity of the way the flag flexes as its pivot point changes this seems perfectly consistent.
  23. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    At the 13:50 time mark he says he did an experiment with bath towel hanging from a shower rod.

    He said he got two seconds. Are you saying the Apollo flag would move about the same way as a bath towel would on earth? I'll try it when I get home and see what I get but I think it will be about the same.

    Here's another anomaly.

    Watch how the corner of Collins' jacket moves in this clip.
    (00:52 time mark)

    The corner of Collins' jacket swings back and forth the way it would in gravity.

    Look at the corners of the jacket the woman astronaut is wearing in this clip.

    That is real zero-gravity and they behave quite differently.

    The movement of Collins' jacket corner is very different from that of the straps in this clip which is in zero-G.
    (3:17 time mark)

    It looks the same as the movement of this guy's jacket corners in gravity.

    They are obviously in strong gravity when they were supposed to be halfway to the moon. One possible explanation is that they were trying to fake zero-gravity in a diving plane and the plane wasn't diving fast enough at that point.
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