Do we actually choose our beliefs?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Magical Realist, Feb 25, 2022.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Faith

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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Even faith seems to be to weak a definition

    Religion on steroids might be a phrase to use but for the earthly connotation

    Perhaps it is a word waiting to be invented

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  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Psychotic.!!!
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ya it occurred to me it would be a word within the medical lexicon

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  8. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    I believe that love is a real mental condition, whether I happen to be experiencing it directly or not, just as I believe that arthritis is a real physical condition, whether I experience it or not, because I can catalogue the symptoms and diagnose the cause through observation, precedent and reasoning.
    I believe in the principles of freedom to love, freedom to speak, freedom to learn, freedom of movement, freedom from oppression, as social policy: policies we have in theory and law, even though there is little evidence and no proof that these policies can be fully integrated into a real society.
    That is what "to believe in" means: to hold a strong opinion or conviction regarding a principle, value system, cause or narrative.
    "To believe" simply means accepting a particular datum as true - with or without evidence - at least provisionally and conditionally .
    Fanaticism. Like the dying Covid patients who insist it's just a cold.
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmm this is where yourself have disagreement about REAL

    Can you take this real mental condition and lay it on a bench for dissection?
    Has it a physicality?
    Have we equipment able to detect IT? Can we point a piece of equipment (not the one which goes PING ) the one which goes "Real mental condition strength X%)

    Note IT not the symptoms from which we make an assumption and tack on a label

    Still not a strong enough word

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    My entry

    Gigisdisobjectivismitis

    From

    Gigantic

    Gigis (Latin) Giant

    Disconnect

    dis (Latin) lack of + (connect)

    with

    reality

    objectivism (n.)

    1854 in philosophical sense, "the doctrine that knowledge is based on objective reality," from objective (adj.) + -ism

    - itis

    Attaching the suffix "-itis" to the end of a word, often a Latin word, can make many common illnesses seem more severe and more frightening than they often are. "-itis" means "inflamed", which in turn means that the body's inflammatory process has occurred in certain body tissues.

    - itis - disease

    Add the lot

    Gigis - dis - objectivism - itis

    I present

    Gigisdisobjectivismitis

    Definition - Gigantic disconnect with reality disease

    That was fun

    How long before accepted into the medical lexicon?

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    01:30 Wednesday 9 March 2022 to early for morning coffee. I should be asleep goodnight
     
  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I'd say we form beliefs based on a whole host of things, as opposed to choosing them. Not like we choose a pair of shoes or an avocado at the grocery store, anyway. But, the formation of beliefs imo comes from analyzing data, external factors like environment, social groups, family of origin, etc...it may feel like you've done all the choosing, but all of these factors simply formed your opinions/beliefs. Maybe without you realizing entirely what was happening, if that make sense.
     
  11. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    No, no and no. So? I still believe it. And if you don't, I'm really, really sorry for you.
     
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    OK cool with that

    Sticking to mental illness, many of the new ones have symptoms not previously been observed

    Some were lumped together and were given an agreed apon name, for the lumped together symptoms, and now said agreed apon name for said new mental illness has been DEFINED into existence

    Still defining (having an agreed name for a collection of symptoms) does not imbue the agreed name with physicality or detect ability

    Patient with the agreed named mental condition description sits quietly in waiting room unable to be distinguished from others sitting quietly

    His agreed apon defined condition has no means being distinguished. Without physicality or detectability observers have nothing

    Have you heard where a group of medical personnel pretended to be mad and some placed into mental care. At the end of the experiment some had difficulty in proving they were sane

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    Sorry was interrupted
    Edit to add

    Part of the reason, I purely speculate, those doing the diagnosis have a belief in the defined reality being real REAL

    Miss my work

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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  13. river

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    Defined reality is two . First Life has an energy if its own . Life exists where it can . Discussion upon Life is mostly based on plant photosynthesis , okay , but what of life in the deep sea , and deep in the Earth's crust where there is no light ? This has not been discussed not nearly enough .
     
  14. river

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    We choose our beliefs , when we compare .

    My Belief is about Humanity . No religion of any kind puts Humanity first . None . I would like a Philosophy of Life that puts Humanity First . With Respect And Honour .
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  15. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds like the golden rule is a good starting point for that.
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmm if that is the '"do unto others" rule, it has a defect where masochist are concerned

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  17. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    That is a valid concern. I've read an expanded version somewhere that clarifies that situation, but I can't find it right now.

    As I said, it's a starting point.

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  18. river

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    No golden rule needed . Just be good . To be good is an attitude towards yourself and others .
     
  19. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Then it sounds like you already have "a philosophy of life that puts humanity first, with respect and honor."

    A friend of mine wrote a song about one of his elementary school teachers. The hook line is something she told her students, "you don't have to be great, just be good every day."
     
  20. river

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    Highlighted

    Attitude makes all the difference .
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. I would have people do onto me what's good for me, just as i would prefer to do onto them what's good for them. If hurting other people is not good for me, I would simply not initiate a relationship with a masochist, and if being hurt is not good for me, i would avoid relationships with a sadist - but if they want to get together, I would not stand in their way.

    '
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds like a good adaptation

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  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    To believe X means to be personally convinced that X is true. That's really all there is to it.

    I don't think we choose to believe things. Either something convinces us that X is true, or it doesn't. Add together the influences of all the things that are trying to convince us that X is true, and we end up with a net belief, or a net lack of belief.

    To an extent, we do get to choose what sorts of things we are going to accept as convincers. Some people have a very low threshold for being convinced that X is true. Maybe it's enough for them that some other person, or people, say X is true. Others have a higher threshold; they might want objective evidence that X is true and not just subjective or anedotal evidence, for instance.

    Personally, I have "changed my beliefs" about a great many things over the course of my life so far. For example, I've gained an education and as a result have become convinced that a great many things are factually true. I have also become convinced that a lot of claims that people make are actually or most probably false. In other words - unremarkably - there is a lot of things I am convinced about and so believe. There's a second lot of things that I'm not yet convinced of but might come to believe in future. There's a third lot of things that I used to believe but I no longer believe because I found out that I had no good reason to be convinced of those things in the first place. And there's a fourth lot of things which I never believed and I am now convinced - hopefully for good reasons - that I will never believe in; to put that another way, I believe that some claims are almost certainly false.

    There has been some discussion in this thread about religious belief. There was a time when I was convinced that God existed. Over time, I came to see that the reasons I had become convinced were not good reasons - and that insight/learning gradually led me to become less and less convinced. At some ill-defined point in time, I realised that I no longer "believed in God". That is, I was no longer convinced that God is real. And that's where I'm still at, many years later. So, for me, God is probably somewhere in category 3 or 4 (see above). Letting go of God was not a choice, as such. I just stopped being convinced that God is real.

    There's nothing special that separates the way I now think about religious questions from how I think about science questions, say. It seems to me that it takes more to convince me of certain things than the average person, perhaps - as evidenced by the fact that most people on Earth claim to believe in supernatural beings. But mostly, when it comes to religion and much else besides, a lot of people don't seem to have a reliable personal "toolbox" for testing claims to decide whether they ought to be convinced by them. Carl Sagan famously talked about this as building an internal "baloney detection kit". Carl was a very smart man and he (among other people) convinced me of a lot of things.
     

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