Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Write4U

    Yet mathematics , in and of its self , cannot produce and /nor create , a real physical object .
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it can, in a dynamical environment, if sufficient resources (relational values and mathematical functions) are available. This was demonstrated by Higgs who was able to mathematically (with values and functions) predict the "manifestation" of the Higgs boson. It earned him a Nobel prize.

    The Nobel Prize in Physics Is Really a Nobel Prize in Math
    Experiment is the ultimate judge of a theory, and that’s why we need expensive and sophisticated machines like CERN's particle accelerator. But the amazing fact is that scientists like Einstein and Higgs made their discoveries with little more than pen and paper.
    EDWARD FRENKEL OCTOBER 9, 2013
    https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...hysics-is-really-a-nobel-prize-in-math/280430

    p.s. that Higgs boson did not have an existence before and decayed back into non-existence (into simpler values) a picosecond after it's manifestation. Even the Higgs boson is "reducible" into "simpler" mathematical quantum values (quarks).

    Long-sought decay of Higgs boson observed
    Six years after its discovery, the Higgs boson has at last been observed decaying to fundamental particles known as bottom quarks. 28 AUGUST, 2018

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    https://home.cern/news/press-release/physics/long-sought-decay-higgs-boson-observed

    quark (1) , noun
    Physics
    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/quark
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  5. river

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    Write4U



    What resources
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    "Relational Values" and "Mathematical Functions". See above

    The empty space is not a physical object. In the abstract, it is a 3 dimensional mathematical pattern, a geometry , curved space.

    The unreasonable relationship between mathematics and physics

    Unintended consequences
    ....

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    https://plus.maths.org/content/unreasonable-relationship-between-mathematics-and-physics
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  8. river

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    But not based on the physical .
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, the mystery lies in the concept of universal wave/particle duality.

    Half-the-time "enfolded" as a dynamical mathematical value potential and half-the-time "unfolded" as a physical pattern in reality.

    David Bohm called this duality, the (mathematical) "Implicate Order" and the (physical) "Explicate Order'
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  10. river

    Messages:
    17,307

    There is no " mystery " Write4U .

    Both the wave and particle are physical things .

    Highlighted

    Disagree

    There is No half this and that . Both the wave and particle make all things are In all things . Mathematics has no influence on anything . What orders things are the things themselves . By their very Nature .
     
  11. river

    Messages:
    17,307

    Highlighted

    A dynamical environment based on physical things .


    Higgs didn't create the particle , Higgs Found the Particle .
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That's debatable.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave
     
  13. river

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    Not really . Both the wave and particle effect and affect physical things . Because both have physical properties .
     
  14. river

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  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And we are coming full circle to David Bohm and the "Pilot Wave Theory" which postulates that particles never behave as waves but follow a path which is guided by the Universal Pilot wave, which actually solves all particle /wave contradictions.

    QUANTUM PHYSICS
    New Support for Alternative Quantum View
    An experiment claims to have invalidated a decades-old criticism against pilot-wave theory, an alternative formulation of quantum mechanics that avoids the most baffling features of the subatomic universe.

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    Olena Shmahalo/Quanta Magazine
    Saving Particle Positions
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/pilot-wave-theory-gains-experimental-support-20160516/
     
  16. river

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    What if Ten people are observing , the same thing at the same time .
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Let's look at 'particles' and if a subatomic particle can qualify as "matter".

    Ask Ethan: Are Quantum Fields Real?

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    Ethan SiegelSenior Contributor
    Starts With A Bang
    Contributor Group
    Science
    The Universe is out there, waiting for you to discover it.
    Patreon supporter Aaron Weiss wants to know, as he asks:
    Let's start with what a quantum field actually is.

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    The proton's structure, modeled along with its attendant fields, show how even though it's made out... [+]
    BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY

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    Through a herculean effort of the part of theoretical physicists, the muon magnetic moment has been... [+]
    2012 AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY

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    This diagram illustrates the inherent uncertainty relation between position and momentum. When one... [+]
    WIKIMEDIA COMMONS USER MASCHEN
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...k-ethan-are-quantum-fields-real/#3e882447777a
     
  18. river

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    You didn't' answer my question , post# 53

    Yet Eddington found that the atom has a solid core .
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong river, that was Professor Ernest Rutherford.
    Eddington found the conclusive evidence supporting Einstein's GR theory in that spacetime warps in the presence of matter/energy and that light follows those same geodesics.
     
  20. river

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    Rutherford then , found that the core of atom has a physical , solid core .
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, that's science.
     
  22. river

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    Of course .
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The brains of all ten people would be making a "best guess" of what they are observing and it would be dependent on their POV.

    Consider: a train track with a moving train at speed which is blowing it's whistle (wave frequencies). Behind the receding train stand 5 people and they all agree that the train whistle's frequency is the note of "c". At the other end of the track are 5 people listening to the train whistle as it approaches them and they all agree that the whistle's frequency is "d ".
    Of these 10 observers, who is telling the truth and who is wrong?

    They are all telling the truth and they are all wrong . The actual frequency of the train whistle is c# . The Doppler effect presents a "modified" frequency to all observers.

    A photon does have a mathematical (quantum) value but this not a physical property. A photon is not "matter" it is a quanta of energetic value with a wavelength.
    Abstract
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379719330943#

    Photons
    Last updated May 18, 2020
    As Described by Maxwell's Equations
    Creation of Photons
    Blackbody Radiation
    Spontaneous Emission
    https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...mental_Concepts_of_Quantum_Mechanics/Photons#
     

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