Drain the Swamp? Oh, that is so yesterday.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The Chinese communist government never fell, and there has as yet been no comparable transition in their economy. Plus, they had nowhere to decline to - they hadn't industrialized in the first place.
    The Chinese government was established in 1949 - after, not before, WWII. So they got to see the Soviet collapse, and learn from it.
     
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  3. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense, they had a similar transition from communism to capitalist economics. At the same time. They have started it even earlier, without seeing the Soviet collapse. Then, there was, of course, some economic harm caused by the split of the Soviet Union into 15-19 independent states, which made trade among them much more difficult. But the governments of the republics never fell too.

    And, btw, the collapse of the Soviet Union was already the result of stupid economic policy by Gorbatshev too. All the robbery of state property of the oligarchs had already started under Gorbatshev. Let's, for example, look at the early career of the mafia boss Khodorkowski:
    So, the oligarchs appeared already in Soviet time, stealing state money and property.
    "China launched its first satellite, known as Dong Fang Hong 1 (lit. "The East is Red 1"), into Earth orbit on its Long March space rocket on April 24, 1970, becoming the fifth nation to achieve independent launch capability." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_(rocket_family) They had also nuclear weapons: "China tested its first nuclear weapon device ("596") in 1964 at the Lop Nur test site. The weapon was developed as a deterrent against both the United States and the Soviet Union. Two years later, China had a fission bomb capable of being put onto a nuclear missile. It tested its first hydrogen bomb ("Test No. 6") in 1967" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons The not even industrialized China had also own nuclear power plants: "On 8 February 1970, China issued its first nuclear power plan, and the 728 Institute (now called Shanghai Nuclear Engineering Research and Design Institute)[19]was founded. On 15 December 1991, China's first nuclear power reactor, a 288 MWePWR at the Qinshan Nuclear Power Plant, was connected to the grid." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China

    Missing industrialization was not the problem of communist countries, it was the misguided, purely militaristic direction and the economic inefficiency of that industry which was the problem.
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and his administration is embroiled in scandal and controversy.

    His Health and Human Services secretary was found to have engaged on insider trading. One of Trump's advisers has resigned because of her track record of intellectual dishonesty.
     
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  7. Kittamaru War Doctor Staff Member

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    This is my shocked face

    -_-
     
    origin likes this.
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump's Health & Human Services secretary nominee bought shares in a company days before he took action to benefit that company.

    http://money.cnn.com/interactive/ne...owley-plagiarized-multiple-sources-2012-book/

    Trump's national security adviser has resigned because she was caught plagiarizing her book. http://money.cnn.com/interactive/ne...owley-plagiarized-multiple-sources-2012-book/

    Then there are all the wall streeters Trump is using to fill cabinet and key regulatory agencies. And Trump hasn't even been sworn into office. So much for draining the swamp. Trump is filling the swamp. He wants to make it a lake, a "huge" lake. Given what we have seen thus far, and we haven't seen much, I can understand why Republicans want to run Trump's nominees through the Senate with little vetting.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The Chinese do not - as we speak - have things like private land ownership, the foundation of capitalist economics. They have not, in other words, accomplished any such transition. They may yet, or they may not - their lack of market discipline in high level finance, due to failure to regulate money-lending so as to maintain actual markets and forestall growth of wealth inequality, is likely to have the same consequences in China it has had in Japan, Europe, and the US.

    Living and learning about Banking Man. We'll see if the Chinese prove wiser than the European and Japanese aristocratic traditions, or the American Ayn Rand addlepates currently inhabiting the Swamp that remains undrained.
    They saw the Soviet Union collapsing, and seem to have learned some valuable lessons.
    China was failing to industrialize, and was mired in extreme poverty, before it began the current transition - regardless of its showpiece military accomplishments, which were well motivated by paranoia and the recent consequences of military vulnerability.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    This morning I watched Trump's Secretary of Health and Human Services nominee, Tom Price, being questioned by senators. I've been impressed by how evasive Trump's nominees have been. But Price, he takes the cake in that regard.

    Sanders asked Price a few questions on access and drugs to which Price plead ignorance. Now, you don't have to be very knowledgeable about American healthcare to know drug prices are a problem in America. But Price, who is a physician, plead ignorance and refused to answer. A few seconds later Price was being complemented for his knowledge of the American healthcare system by Senator Hatch, a Republican. It was really funny to watch.

    You had the nominee, Tom Price, pleading ignorance of a key aspect of the American healthcare system, and a few seconds later being complemented for his knowledge of the American healthcare system. I found that humorous in a sad sort of way. What pisses me off most about politics is the blatant and rampant dishonesty, and unfortunately it runs amok in the American right wing.

    Get this, the good Dr. Price didn't even know the leading cause of death in this country.

    And it keeps getting better; not only did price buy stock in a company before he used his position as a congressman to benefit that company, he bought that stock at a discounted price, a price below market and wasn't available to everyone. That isn't draining the swamp!

    If you look at what Price has promoted, if you look at his record, Price has done nothing but look out for and benefited the special interests at the expense of the average American. These guys are pretty damn slimy, but this crap works with their base. That's why they do it.

    I've seen this reliance on ignorance before by Trump's other nominees, and I find it very disturbing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017 at 5:19 PM
  11. Kittamaru War Doctor Staff Member

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    11,601
    To quote some people who were interviewed in the MidWest:

    But Republican COULD WORK! It hasn't work yet... but... maybe this time IT WILL! It WILL work for me!

    *headdesk* Our electorate is dumb... that's the true problem here...
     
  12. Kittamaru War Doctor Staff Member

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    11,601
    Oh Betsy...

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/betsy-devos-grizzly-bears-donald-trump-guns/

     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It's worth noting, even though I haven't found the segment, that Chris Hayes, as he ran down the list, made a good case that several of the incoming president's nominees are perilously close to derailment.

    Meanwhile, in another segment I did find, Rachel Maddow↱ skewers the fact of a sixth Goldman Sachs appointment to the administration―after having invented a new job in order to appoint the fifth―and wonders if we need a special word for a collection of former Goldman Sachs executives.

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    A gripe of Goldmans: That would be my suggestion; click for TRMS segment.
     
  14. Kittamaru War Doctor Staff Member

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    I'd just call it a "broken government" myself

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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's called a "murder" of crows. "Pack" has its uses.

    But "cabal" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal_Ministry, "plutocracy", etc.

    Suggestion: an "execution" - derived from the "murder" of crows, by way of "executive".
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017 at 6:00 AM
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Tru'nuff, but owing to the fact that we are dealing with conservatives, Maddow is asking that the word have nothing to do with a murder of anything. Seems wise. My other suggestion was a sac of sachs.

    (Okay, okay, I didn't bother thinking up that one until now.)
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That has a certain appeal. I kind of like it.
     

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