Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue? --------- http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/ “Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.” --------- http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/original_sin.html From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged. “What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man. Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.” Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Gen 3;22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue? Regards DL
What I could never understand is why God did not take the time to explain that it was wrong to break his rules and encourage better behaviour next time. These first humans with no education thrown into the world and bang one mistake and you are out of here. And really was it not a bit of a set up..... These days we call it entrapment. And really was that fair. Before a court these days even mere human judges can be cognative of special circumstances that warrent a warning and a "bond". So before you get carried away with analysis of sin etc why not analyse why God could not have been compassionate, understanding and forgiving.... you know why did he not exhibit all those wonderful qualities that apparently we are to embrace. Alex
I would not be surprised that the first people God give them a chance . The story is if you eat you will die , they did not die right away , God's compassion , He made them cloths . I believe Judas the traitor had a chance to be forgiven also , but he did not chose to ask for forgiveness because if pride as I believe vas the case of the early people. God forgave David for a horrendous Sin .
Hi there Timojin. I must tell you the book I read suggests that God was quick to cast out Adam and Eve. On reading it the story is not like you suggest. One could think if your version is the correct one and given forgiveness is a key element that there would be writings telling how many times God forgave them. Its not something one would gloss over. I did not know God made them clothes. Certainly if God had wanted us to run around naked we would be born that way. I really dont think he made them clothes, why the need if prior to sin coming on the scene... Or did he make them something when he kicked them out a sort of going away present. Judas and his destiny must have been planed by God after all the object of the exercise was to have Gods son die so he could take humans sins away. So do you think Judas really had any control on what he was doing as it seems he was set up dont you think. My point in all of this is to point out that reliance on these old stories leaves ones faith open to ridicule and I would suggest that if you want to believe in God go ahead but to dwell on these old stories perhaps takes away more than they give. I listen to that little voice inside me to tell me what is right and wrong, I dont think it is God but I assure you it directs me much better than trying to make sence from these old stories. Folk who waffle on about stuff like the OP get to me. Why look back to old authors who were uninformed and knew zip when today you can think for yourself. Never the less believe what you will I respect your right to do so and thank you for sharing your thoughts. Have a great day. Alex
The tree of knowledge was not food for the body, it was food for the mind. It was the knowledge of everything as all things are subject to good and evil. The tree of knowledge is the tree of all education. Would you deny your children an education and keep them mentally blind? If not, why do you support a vile God who would keep mankind uneducated? Regards DL
YOU are saying God want us to be ignorant. The fact that there are many educated people believer in God . Let start with history . Do you find many historic events in the middle east comparable to the bible with out taking into account present archaeological in the last 2 century ? One of my sons is in his 4th year in medical school and other is in college , Your statement does not apply in my case. I suppose the part of tree of knowledge implies . The paradise was like an isolated island with in other cultures at that time , and the serpent was an individual from the other cultures and he was encouraging the early people to join them , so Adam and Eva joined them and were chasen out of the paradise.
I am not here to discuss history as there is almost none of it in scriptures. At least my favorite biblical history scholars says that and she knows more than I do. She shows that in just the first minutes of this link. "YOU are saying God want us to be ignorant." I am saying that I agree with the Jewish version that says so, yes. The tree of knowledge is analogous to our schools. Do you agree? If so then tell us if you would command your children to not go and gain an education the way God did with A & E.? Regards DL
You are repeating yourself "YOU are saying God want us to be ignorant." not me. Posting to me R>Dawkins is bad . he is for me a pedler to the atheists just like are several preachers . his knowledge in biochemistry is silch, let him be to you a hero but not to me.
Not if he does as Christianity did and plans to grow Christianity with murder. A good God would grow his religion with good deeds and not murder. Regards DL
