No. I can't accept your calling my 49% power plant conversion efficiency "pessimistic" when it is very generous - far above what is achievable with current coal-fired technology. There are 3 or 4 somewhat experimental super critical steam / coal fired power plants in China that may get significantly more than that 49%, but AFAIK, none in the USA, where coal still makes more than half of the Kwh produced. Here is how they measure power plant efficiency: "To express the efficiency of a generator or power plant as a percentage, divide the equivalent Btu content of a kWh of electricity (which is 3,412 Btu) by the heat rate. For example, if the heat rate is 10,140 Btu, the efficiency is 34%; if the heat rate is 7,500 Btu, the efficiency is 45%." From US's EIA: Table 8.2. "Average Tested Heat Rates by Prime Mover and Energy Source, 2007 -2011" at: http://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_02.html We see the most recent data (2011) that the average coal-fired power plant's "heat rate" in the US is: 10,128 Btu or 33.6% efficient, worse than England's 38% but "miles a way" from Electric's 60%, which must have been a "wild invention" trying to support the EV's. Also interesting to note, is that there has been little improvent in this well developed ~100 year old technology. I.e. in 2007 the average heat rate, according to the EIA was 10,158 or 10158 / 10128 is less than 0.3% while ICEs and cars using them are improving their efficiency by ~2.5% annually now, but of course that will slow as Carnot limits are approached and no more weight reduction can be made. Also important to note is that this modest improvement is ENTIRELY DUE to the closing of older coal fired plants - Excluding the super critical steam technology China is developing there is ZERO room for efficiency gains in the coal fired plant efficiency which has been refined for about 100 years. The US and England are doing quite well with this old technology. The global average efficiency of coal fired power plants is only 28%. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! "State of the art" coal plants have only 45% efficiency vs. my assumed 49%. Chart from: http://www.worldcoal.org/coal-the-environment/coal-use-the-environment/improving-efficiencies/ which does have links to the ultra super critical power plants China is trying to develop. China does not, AFAIK tell their best efficiency - they only say that they produce 50% more electrical energy per ton of coal the China's existing power plants, which I quite sure get no more than 26% conversion efficient as they are old and obsolute designs. Thus China is claiming only 39% efficiency for the new technology under development. SUMMARY: I was NOT "pessimistic" I was very generous / optimistic as to what efficiency coal fired power plants can achieve. I have documented most of my statements, you and Electric have mainly just made pro-EV claims. I asked Elecrtic where was that 60% efficient power plant and what price they sold electric energy for. (Electric had said: "Efficiency of ~60% conversion of heat to electricity have been achieve in full size power plants.") but of course no reply was given as it does not exist.