Ending the global USA dollar defacto fiat.

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Quantum Quack, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Much news recently suggests that Russia, China and the EU intend to cut out the USA Dollar from their trading. ( Especially Russian media outlets )
    I am not sure what language to use and am ignorant of this topic, but I ask the board their thoughts on what happens when the USA currency is no longer used as a benchmark etc...

    It occurs to me that the present USA Administration has over used it's international economic "power" and could be accused of unconscionable conduct thus abuse of that power. By over using economic sanctions to extort results etc...leading to nations basically deciding to work towards removing any dependency on USA currency as a push back against what could be seen as over reach by the Trump administration, intending to isolate/insulate/quarantine what may be considered as a rogue USA.

    Has Trump gone too far?

    care to discuss...
     
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  3. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Well I think this has been a feature of global economics for as long as I remember. The US is basically free to borrow/print money/devalue its currency to its heart's content and everyone jumps into line.

    Simply due to the fact that it has a monopoly of the requisite tools (mainly just size of their economy).

    This will change obviously but I think they are giving it a last lash for old times sake and ostentatiously waving this stick around.

    Perhaps this explains the present antipathy to the EU as they are the second in line as it were and the US doesn't like competition in this area.
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    amen
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.
    Fascists are fuckups.
    No point in reading anything like that into it. Trump doesn't know what he's doing.
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    A global depression doesn't help anyone.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I know i am being a bit glib, but why would a nation suffering severe USA sanctions care?
    Iran is already in a state of severe hardship. North Korea even worse. And so on.

    Depression in the West perhaps. Isn't that where Ttrump is heading anyhow?
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The winning US bankers came out of the last one wealthier and more powerful than they went in.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Today published in the Russian Insider...
    In a speech at the International Economic Forum, in St. Petersburg, Russia, “Russian Davos”, President Putin reaffirmed his position regarding the Federal Reserve Note and it’s international role. For the record, we see the abuse of the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve Note, U.S. dollar, in similar light as President Putin. The current status of “world reserve currency” should not be allowed in this day and time. The absolute abuse of power, excessive power granted and the ability to shackle entire nations through the use of a currency that is not even their own should have never been allowed but it is way past time for this system to be dissolved.
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    true
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Most people seem to want simple answers to complex questions.
    This may be why most international money-changers want a single reserve currency.
    The federal reserve board may be a bunch of elite assholes who favor their elite chums over the average citizen, but they do a fairly good job at controlling inflation---(most of the time)
    So a fairly inflation-proof currency as a default global currency makes for easier international banking.
    ..................
    Is the world financial system ready for a cryptocurrency "backed by gold"?
    ..........................
    Personally, I think that economic sanctions against a country with the goal of regime change is a really ugly part of US foreign policy, and the use of that tool makes many wish to see the power of the dollar eradicated.
    ..................
    If memory serves, Gaddafi sought to create a trans-African currency backed by Libyan gold reserves instead of relying on the US dollar....................................and then, we have H.Clinton------"we came, we saw, he died".

    ............................. .......................................
    a feral cat got into the chicken coop yesterday and was terrifying the chickens. I grabbed it in an attempt to remove if and got a finger bit and deep scratches on the other hand. (what was I thinking?)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,083
    sure

    the middle east wont
    china & russia could if they wanted but would need to do it slowly.
    Europe has no need but can simply start to add higher exchange costs on it, but they may suffer in tourism so thats unlikely.

    real numbers ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-exchange_reserves_of_China

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

    the real numbers get a wee bit complicated
    most people do not understand it all
    i barely have a slim grasp on some basics.

    what is probably unable to be published because of normal privacy laws that protect private citizens and business is
    how much usa currency is traded through usa currency accounts as international trade volumes.

    if china was to make a law removing all usa currency accounts and have them swapped to for example
    russian or euro
    that would probably be a real nightmare

    if china stopped its citizens and companys from trading in the usa dollar then it would likely send the usa dollar down some what
    somewhat to a point that might be considerable uncomfortable for the usa.

    from my limited understanding many chinese businesses trade internationally using the usa dollar
    this gives the usa dollar a great deal of strength.
    now that china is soo big. if it dumps that it is going to hurt its own companys and small traders.
    however if they do it slowly it might not be soo damaging to china.

    if china is able to stand on its own feet as a national economy with enough power to maintain its natural resources then it could in theory do it if it wanted to be nasty.
    it would likely disrupt the Chinese people to a point they might start moving businesses off shore.

    i would be very surprised if china did that because of the massive cost to their economy considering they have lost 50% of their growth over the last 5 or soo years.

    simpyl by china refusing to hold usa currency any more that could by its self have minimal impact to china and do considerable negative impact tot he usa dollar value
    this would upset the middle east.
    if it upset them enough they may start to charge china more for oil.
    if china can secure oil from africa then it may be a slightly different story.

    which ever way it goes chinese businesses will suffer and the big question is the change in banking and online payment processes that will then be involved.

    there is a great deal of unknowns and none have china and russia coming out of it with the same money they went in
    so it is a question of how much they are willing to lose of their currency reserves.
    which currency will they replace it with that is stable enough to avoid inflation.

    that is a whole different discussion and extremely complicated
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Do think that the reality of digital currency (virtual dollars) would make it easier?
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I mean who actually needs to print money these days anyhow?
     
  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    if this is what your talking about then your talking about global financial war
    the usa could kiss goodbye to around 30% of its current ecconomy

    but it is mostly chess moves
    the real tricky question is
    what country will allow its currency to become the new global carrier currency and able to manage such vast transactional processes without simply becoming a kangaroo bank that finances terrorism

    it is do-able.
    however
    it would probably cost around a trillion dollars to set up
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,083
    lol
    cashless society is an idle pipe dream of the idle affluent middle class.
    it is unworkable

    looking at the way the usa handled its federal shut down, would you be willing to hand them the off and on button to the entire country's personal bank accounts ?
    imagine that
    an argument in the federal budgeting(or an agency action) which closes down all credit cards and debit cards.

    these are the same people who put hundreds of thousands of children into the soup kitchen lines because they felt like it.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't carried any cash for over a year now. And i am a pensioner on the soup (bread) line...haven't used cash for ages.
     
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I do not even know what currency i am being paid in. I presume it is Aud but really i have no indication until i wish to use fx.
    The point being that for most it is just numbers on a digital screen. Could be any currency.
    I know ..... i'm being a bit silly but then again....
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,083
    a cashless society gives all power over food and services to those who hold the power of the electronic highways
    have you ever had a disagreement with a government agency where they have made a mistake ?
    have you read about those occurrences ?
    imagine them turning off your money by accident before a Christmas holiday when they wont be open again for 2 weeks
    add on top of that malicious hackers who could target a server or transfer point to shut down an entire citys money
    no food
    nothing until it gets fixed

    imagine an entire citys electronic banking system shut down for 2 days maybe 3

    then what ?
    looting !
    massive spike in violent crime

    its an idea created by lunatics who think its funny to sit in an ivory tower wearing tin foil hats
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Welli hate to say it, but it's already here.
     
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,083


    a cashless society is a socialist or fascist society
    you cant have a mixed economy democratic society which is cashless
    not until equal rights and 100% employment is sorted like in star trek
     

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