Ok....I'm TRYING to keep my composure here....but please, tell me exactly HOW that makes sense? You know, Tassia said that this forum has gone to shit, and I'm gonna have to agree. It's probobly our fault (Non-religious) becuase we pose intelligent questions to the Christians in hopes of getting intelligent responses. Yet, we get answers like this: ...grrrr...OK...AGAIN, trying to keep composure... Seeds, I cannot agree with you, becuase my mind does not allow me to. I have wanted to believe in god, I really have. I was an altar boy, I attended church, I went to catholic school, I did the tour, baby. I was all about finding religion, and the true god. I've had in-depth with my parents, (One a christian, one a Greek Orthodox Catholic) and yet, I have never been able to believe. It's not that the devil has my heart, becuase my heart has ALWAYS been in the right place; I have ALWAYS wanted to believe in god. ALWAYS. And mainly becuase it would be sooooo cozy if there was this almight being responsible for this place I'm in and who is going to take care of me when I die. But the fact is, I studied, I searched, I read the Bible, I used LOGIC...and came to the conclusion that while there may be something or someTHINGS responsible for our race, it wasn't your god. No way. The Bible is contradictory and rediculous, and there are writings older than it that say much of the same things, save the "One God" idea. I want to point you to the technology we had back then, that Christians say wasn't there...(As do most scientists) but the fact is, despite some of the tidbits of evidence and common sense, we don't know for sure of the amazing technology we probobly had, so I won't even bring it up. But think about how terrible those teachings are. Strip your singularity away, don't do things that come naturally to humans, and spend your days fearing "God." What kind of shit life is that? The payoff is eternal life...well, eventually, through science, we can have that too. So why waste your time..your LIFE...worshiping this oppresive theory that gives you NOTHING in return? JD
The Exodus happened, but not as quoted in that "book". Archeologists have found, by Mount Karkom, on the Israeli/Egypt border, (not sure of spelling but hebrew for mountain of god) - a 12 stone altar, hebrew writings and evidence of a settlement. For "red sea" in the book read "Reed Sea", it was a mistranslation. And the Reed Sea did and does exist. Blame the plagues of Egypt on the volcanic eruption of Santorini which was devastating to say the least. The waters "parted" by the evacuation of waters from the tidal Reed Sea prior to the arrival of the volcanic induced tidal wave. Look at the St Helena eruption in the USA - what followed was exactly like the "plagues of Egypt" - dark skies, brimstone, plague of frogs, insects etc, everything covered in ash. The eruption of Santorini also took out the Minoans and it is possible, Atlantis too, as the city that was built on the island was directly on the centre of the eruption and was completely obliterated. Supposedly this city was a marvel to behold and was way ahead of its time. The supposed crossing of the Red Sea never happened.
You don't mean to tell me that they've really found Paleo-Hebrew sites, do you? My God - who would have thunk?
I can only go by what I learn, in this case a documentary on the finds on Discovery TV by eminent archeologists from Egypt, Israel and the USA. They stated quite categorically that the finds date exactly to the period post Santorini and pre Israel. In the bible it states that Moses built an altar comprising 12 stones - one for each of the tribes of Israel at the base of the mountain - this has been found and dated. Also Moses was extremely literate and wrote everything down, as apparently were others in his midst. There is also a depiction of a drawing on one of the stones of a 10 compartmented double tablet which, the experts are satisfied, is a drawing of the 10 commandments which Moses "brought down" from the mountain. Which, incidently, I believe, he wrote himself, without divine intervention. He refered to them as "gods laws" the term "commandments" came later. He realised that a "new state" required laws and did the business. As I am neither an archeologist nor religious, I would take the word of an expert in the field any day to that of a cleric who only sees the religious aspects of such a site. These people know a damn sight more than me and I trust their opinions. I would prefer that none of this was proved as it goes against the grain, so to speak, in that it proves an incident in the bible was true.
JDawg Quote - "Seeds, I cannot agree with you, because my mind does not allow me to. I have wanted to believe in god, I really have. I was an altar boy, I attended church, I went to catholic school, I did the tour, baby. I was all about finding religion, and the true god. I've had in-depth with my parents, (One a christian, one a Greek Orthodox Catholic) and yet, I have never been able to believe." Dude, that is totally where i am. Nothing to hold or evaluate, therefore nothing to believe. In my opinion one might as well say Bart Simpson created the universe . I would love to believe, the world would actually make sense then (as it does to my religious friends) but, I just don't... and ill go to hell for that (if hell exists) doesn't that seem wrong to you believers?
Red Devil Quote - "In the bible it states that Moses built an altar comprising 12 stones - one for each of the tribes of Israel at the base of the mountain - this has been found and dated." I'd be interested if you have a link showing that the altar you spoke of has in fact been found and dated. Its definitely news to me but im an amateur in this subject.
Yes it does seem wrong. But for another reason than you suppose. Faith is a gift from God. It is something you ask for and then accept by living it - the 'realization' of faith is that it does make a difference to your life if you persevere. The result of sin is death - Physical degeneration and spiritual death. We are like branches that were separated from the vine that gives them life - a vine that give eternal life. If we are not grafted back on to that vine, our lives continue their long slide towards eternal death. The 'eternal' part means it never ends - there is nothing to give it life again. Eternal life - "heaven" - is the end of death, the relief/salvation. "Judgement" is the separation between those who live and those who die. "Punishment" is the torment of being stuck with the guilt of sin, without hope of relief. Notice: "torment" is not the same as "torture". This is why Christ was called "the hope of all nations". Without the hope of relief, there is simply no hope at all. Faith is believing in this hope, enough to keep on hoping no matter what life throws at you. It is possible - and there is nothing like the feeling of amazement at what God does with you through your faith.
Perhaps this ought to be a new thread. It is a shame that Increan's original question has been eroded and avoided by the apologetics in this forum. If Adam and Eve had not sinned, would they have lived forever? Then, if they lived forever and continued to reproduce, wouldn't our sad little earth eventually become heavily overburdened with a mass of limitless humanity?
jdawg, u make me lAUGH. u are another who likes to compare your own wisdom with god's. a simpleton will deny something without tasting it. the world is a good basic grounding and platform to grow up in, and the work (to buffy) has to be done with one's own brow of sweat. i never give up. u, u want things on a plate and spoon-fed. god IS wisdom. amen jenyar. right on!
Red Devil, No problem, I was just curious if it was the same show. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
If one believes there is such a thing called Existence, then one must also believe in Eternity. This Eternity, is the amount of "existing" present. This Eternity includes the point before the universe existed, and the point after its exsitence. This Eternity is not bounded by the limits of time, whose existence is debatable and relative, but by displacement, wholeness, and the sum of all the parts. This eternity is also the absolute frame of reference. The frame of exlusive of all others. The absolute that explains there are no other absolutes. This frame is the frame of whcih all others are created from, the "first cause". The cause that has no cause, unlike all other causes. If this Cause, this plane, this canvas, this asbolute frame of reference does not exist, then nothing else can exist, for there must ALWAYS be a "first cause" a Cause that is uncaused, but is a cause for all other causes.
Thank you! Has it ever been discreted convincingly? While I think it's probably true that it is slightly contradictary; apparently early on it is written 'an eye for an eye', yet later it says 'turn the other cheek', this slight imperfection does not make the foundations much less stable, in my opinion.
i gave up on reading every opion on this page just because there r 2 many. I myself have read the bible and i find it total BULL. I mean really, go look up the big bang theory. it makes much more sense than some supernatural guy that looks like a human made the universe in 7 days. And all u that give the bible so much credit. Go read deutreronmy (dont count on my spelling) checkout the laws that god laid down 4 moses as misc. Theres one in there that says if a guy rapes a virgin that isnt pledged 2 maridge, all he gets 4 punishment isthat hes gotta marry her and pay her dad 50 sheckles. Honestly what god would give his virgins away 2 any guy that raped them???!!!! And if god loves allhis childern, and u were a good person all ur life, y should u go 2 hell just cause u didnt quite believe in him. Yet again, anotherquestion, since when did a flood wipe out the entire population? look at records of other cilivalizations, its not possible. And why would u want 2 believe in a religion that forced its self upon millions of people. And just 2 mention something else...that god that Islam kills themselves and others for...allah? Hes the same god. Just thought i'd point that out. said my piece....
BillClintonscigar - yeah right!!! haha! I think that the bible, like any work of fact/fiction always has a "basis" in fact but in this case, the bible, the telling has grossly distorted the fact. As stated in another post somewhere, the Exodus did happen and the "symptoms" of the exodus happened, but are now scientific fact regarding the origins, so therefore other stories may well be based on some sort of fact too, but, like I said, distorted in the telling and twisted to suit the teller's beliefs. Its pretty much like the adage of the circle of people - tell a joke to the next person and let it travel round the circle. When it arrives back at the originator, it is not what was originally said..............
