Evidence that God is real

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    To swap analogies, if "the police are", and it doesn't phase your day job, then the political context of flashing blue lights etc doesn't really change anything .... unless you also have a somewhat nefarious night job or something.
     
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, analogy for God?
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    No. Science can't explain lots of things. That doesn't mean a supernaturalistic explanation prevails over no explanation. The laws of physics could be wrong under certain circumstances, in fact we know they are wrong as applied to the early Big Bang universe.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    "Unproven"
    Science is presented as "unproving" things.
    Why? The post prompting that used - correctly, at least in the grammar - "disproven".

    This kind of language miss - this weird fog of words that almost but not quite mean something that the poster could hold to reason or be held to reason for - is ubiquitous to the point of characteristic in the posting of oA theists on science forums. It is a field mark, like the red head on a woodpecker.
    And that - the next sentence in the post - shows us why: they aren't here to discuss, they are here to disparage and attack.

    Their entire agenda amounts to an ad hominem argument within the broader political and social context of the US and Western culture generally. ( A real one, matching the actual meaning and usage of "ad hominem", rather than their own deceptive and dishonest use of that term).

    And since their cause is good, they feel justified in the dishonesty and bad faith of their disparagements and attacks. Any rhetorical tactic is ok by them, since the ethics of intellectual debate and foundations of reason are part of what they are attacking.
    "His" self-anointed representatives here are all liars and deceivers and bad faith posters.
    All of them.
    Why is that?
     
  8. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Analogy for being or not being at the receiving end of a "political context" actually.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you can redefine "death" as "irreversible death" to win the argument. But that's sort of throwing in the towel, isn't it?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There you go.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    All the tests we do to determine death - are all tests for life that return negative (pulse, heartbeat, breathing).

    i.e. there is no functional distinction between 'failure to detect life' and 'dead', assuming sufficient time to do the detecting.

    You're right. Clinically dead is a stronger statement.

    Dead: "I can't detect signs of life. But I'm just this guy."
    Clinically dead: "I am a doctor, and I have done the required tests - and by all official tests, this person is dead."
     
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Just pointing out that dead means dead and is very very tricky sometimes
    Used to be if you held a mirror close to the mouth and did not see condensation on the mirror the person was considering dead
    Latest brain activity
    Maybe a newer version as I have been away from nursing for a long period
    *****
    Sometimes, the line between life and death can seem blurred. In one recent case, a woman was erroneously declared dead after having a heart attack and wound up freezing to death in a body bag in the morgue.
    https://www.livescience.com/46418-clinical-death-definitions.html
    *****
    Regardless

    We do not have the ability to raise the dead

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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That's interesting. Can you give some details or links to sites which proposes that mathematical physics did not apply to early BB conditions. Are we starting with Chaos?
     
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect
    *****
    Sometimes, the line between life and death can seem blurred. In one recent case, a woman was erroneously declared dead after having a heart attack and wound up freezing to death in a body bag in the morgue.
    https://www.livescience.com/46418-clinical-death-definitions.html
    *****

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  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Origin of the phrase "dead ringer".
    In days of old with when a person got so drunk that they passed out, sometimes people would think that he had died and needed burial.
    However being that drunks often just need to sleep it off they would place a small bell with a line to the buried person inside the casket, just in case.
    The night watchman (graveyard shift) would immediately respond if he heard a bell ring and would rescue the buried live person.
    However, on occasion the watchman would fall asleep and not hear the bell.
    When that happened the buried living person would become a "dead ringer"....

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    All those wasted prayers.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know she was dead afterwards?
     
  17. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Does that mean God can be outside political context?
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The segment did not give that detail

    Though at a guess it would have been picked up when she was taken out for the autopsy

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  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    At this time, the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe, would have been on top of itself. The density would have been infinite. It would have been what is called, a singularity. At a singularity, all the laws of physics would have broken down. This means that the state of the universe, after the Big Bang, will not depend on anything that may have happened before, because the deterministic laws that govern the universe will break down in the Big Bang. The universe will evolve from the Big Bang, completely independently of what it was like before. Even the amount of matter in the universe, can be different to what it was before the Big Bang, as the Law of Conservation of Matter, will break down at the Big Bang. ...

    Hawking
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, so the autopsy killed her. Those monsters! Ban autopsies!
     
  21. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The article said she froze to death

    The autopsy picked it up but was not the cause

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  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    But you said that wasn't death, because hypothermia is sometimes reversible.
     

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