Evolution - Yes it DID bloody well happen!

Leodv,

What do mean by evolution in this context? Evolution comprises both factual observations and processes (the theories). Do you then disagree with the facts, and if so what particular established facts do you disagree with?

What does that mean? A theory is a process that helps explain a fact. All the time the facts can be explained by using the theory then the theory becomes accepted. If there is an occasion when the theory doesn’t explain the facts then the theory needs to be adapted and updated so that it can explain the facts. These are usual scientific methodologies.

What exactly is it that you are saying hasn’t been proven?

That is an unqualified assertion. What is your evidence?

In what sense? Genetics is still an evolving science and contains many theories. Are you pledging genetics theories against evolutionary theories?

You haven’t established that your premises are valid, so your conclusion is invalid until then.

Only if your logic was valid which in this case it isn’t.

But welcome to sciforums anyway.

Cris

 

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Xelios That one totally cracked me up...

Seriously how can even Kal keep from laughing at his own stupidity?...

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As a child.....

When I was a child, i noticed a similarity between the species, dogs, cats, monkeys, mostly all mammals that is, I noticed the placement of their sexual organs was similar to our own, I made a comment of it in a small group of friends, needless to say I was laughed at. Today I notice the reason why these species have same sexual organs in similar place, it's simple ""evolution"".

Evolution is a science, I dont give a rats ass what the "supreme court ruled" it's a science and that is that..

Evolutionists have no form of faith, they only have theories, which can be proven to be factual or not, however religion is requiered entirely upon faith, there is no theories in religion it is as, it is or you go to hell. This is the choice given by religionists, evolutionists make no claims of someone ending up in some sort of hell for not believing their claims.

Can evolution co-exist with religion? I think they can, once accepted, that the evolutionist theories are factual, a theists can claim "god works in misterious ways" They always do, learn to addapt, or they will loose their livelihoods.

 

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How can these religious folks so completely ignore all evidence? It makes no sense... Unless it is deliberate blindness in an attempt to maintain their delusions. *shrug* I don't know. The world is nuts.

 

The goal of science is to observe facts and determine laws from them. Until a law is undisputable, it remains a theory.

As far as evolution is concerned, facts have been observed, however scientists were unable to make an undisputable law out of them. => Evolution is a theory.

And as such it hasn't been proven. i.e. there is no actual evidence that the evolution theory is correct.

And as far as genetics vs. evolution is concerned, evolution is in contradiction with genetics because evolution supports that some or many or all characteristics of a said species is determined by its life, whereas genetics supports all of its characteristics (at least at the primal stages) are determined from the genetic data inherited from mother and father.

And as for "Genetics have been proven," that was a messy expression. I should have said that the fact that our genetic data is 100% father and mother has been proven - I would go even as far as to say it has been proven in the 17th century by Mendel.

Thus, genetics and evolution are in contradiction. And since the truthfulness of one has been proven, but not that of the other, I *tend* to believe in the one that was proven.

Call me stupid, but that's what I do.

And, on an unrelated reasoning, I'm going to make one of those stupid-at-first-glance-but-actually-insightful comments :

We kept bumping into walls, so we grew eyes?

 

Evolution is such an amazing design, it adds my astonishment for this splendid, intelligent Creator.
Do you think that it is by chance we have eyes to see the beauty of nature? ears to listen to music? hearts to feel love?

 

or more likely: eyes to notice enemy from a distant, ears to be aware, hearts to keep us alive.

by creator you mean nature right?

 

No I think he ment IKEA

 

The world around us provides many stimuli. Naturally our bodies developed to take advantage of that to facilitate survival.

Stimulus | Adaption for survival
-------------------------------------------
Vibrations | Ears
Radiation | Eyes
Chemical Traces | Nose & Tongue
Tactile | Skin and all those short hairs

It's all cells evolving to suit the world around them, that's all.

 

LeoDV

I'll wait for the long form.

Evolution hasn't been proven

We might point out, in a similar context, neither has your existence. cf Descartes for the mere tip of that iceberg.

Gravity, for instance, is still a mere theory, by the standard you're advocating.

Evolution contradicts genetics

For instance, as you point out that the goal of science is to observe facts and determine laws from said observations, I'm quite sure you can provide us some elaboration on your statement that evolution and genetics are contradictory. Did I miss a scientific confession? Or can you point us to the data in the NAS links which bring you to such a conclusion.

And, no, genetics aren't proven. the mother/father data is proven, but genetics is still a theoretic science. Take "junk DNA", for instance. Search is over, right? Won't we feel silly when we figure out that it has a specific purpose? Junk DNA? It serves a specific purpose; nature isn't extraneous.

The problem with disagreeing with evolutionary theory

The problem that comes with disagreeing with evolutionary theory is fundamental. Why disagree? Well, it appears that some feel they know better--e.g. Creationists--and others may simply seek to reject an explanation they find unappealing or else dissatisfactory.

Why dissastisfactory? Of faith and appeal, we understand much. But satisfaction?

I always note that the scientific process isn't finished. As such, what is so dissatisfying? A simplistic conclusion that evolution must be false? If it is so simple as evolution and genetics being contradictory, by all means, please demonstrate.

So what do the naysayers have to offer? Various divine comedies that reduce humanity to marionettes or accidents? Have they any observable data to support a cohesive theory? Can, for instance, the creationists, show us the creator?

That, as the NAS notes, The scientific consensus around evolution is overwhelming, you'll note the genetecists aren't complaining? In fact, as NAS points out, genetics is vital to the evolutionary database:

Thus, seeing as how your argument against evolution includes the idea that genetics contradicts evolution, I would hope you can show us where in these pages you've noted as a testament against evolution you derive this opinion.

And, in light of the failure of theistic opponents of evolution to hitherto present a cohesive, testable alternative theory, I might ask what alternative you would present? The most part of the objective wing of the science crowd seems on the trolly for evolutionary theory. What else is out there?

thanx much,
Tiassa

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Evolution='man made theory' , Creation=truth of GOD's!

The illegality of it is of people that hates God's Holy Word, and worships the created, rather then the Creator of the universe! There is on real justifiycation for there ignorance of truth, that there is a greater wisdom then that of men, and that is the very Supreme Being that created them, and will aways know far more about everything that is known and unknown unto any man or angel! And that is GOD alone created all there was, is, and will be!

GOD is Supreme, and was always GOD in eternity pass, and for ever more, He is GOD!

He never had a beginning, and will never have an end! Above time and dimentions, and all! You all shall stand before Him soon! Jesus, His Son can save the vilest siner, and make him/her whole!

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Leo:

You know, if I were stoned, I would probably appreciate that profundity.

"Wow! Like, evolutionary theory is a theory!"

So is relativity, so is Newtonian physics, so is the germ theory, so is the Hertzprung-Russel diagram, so is quantum mechanics, so is plate tectonics....need I go on?

I think so.

So is Mendelian genetics, so is molecular kinetics, so is the Pauli exclusion principle, so is heliocentricism, so on, and so forth.

It has.

After a wild night with the wrong sort of mushrooms, I can see how you might think that.

But you are wrong.

Whatever that means.

False dilemna.

See above. And above that. And above that. And above that.

Sir Loone: Okay, I will play along.

You confuse hate with disbelief.

I'm an athiest, I don't worship anything.

 

Xev,

I’ve tried to categorize Loone for sometime, and I think this latest attempt is close.

Loone is like a brick wall that can speak.

You can punch, kick, and bang your head against a brick wall and all that will be hurt will be yourself.

Note that this particular brick wall has no ears so it can’t hear. Everything you say to the Loone wall will of course be as effective as….. well….it just won’t have any effect.

The speaking part is also quite telling, because walls don’t have brains. So it is quite amazing how this wall can speak. But of course without a brain there can be no reason or sense or in fact anything that makes sense. And of course what it does recite is extremely limited - just a single message, which naturally has no meaning, just a jumble of letters really.

So go ahead and knock yourself out on the L wall, but don’t expect any sympathy from us when your frustration makes you feel suicidal.

Ignore him would be my advice, give him the big elbow, well actually don’t do that, it’ll probably hurt, but you get my drift, right?

So take care, and spend your thoughts and words on something more worthwhile.
Kai.

 

While I agree Evolution is very real you also have to realize that Moses wrote about it 1430BC. Agreed his perception of in a day doesn't wash with any known facts it should be viewed as he made some errors. If you really look at the two it is easy to see them as one in the same . But both sides of the issue would rather fight and scream and say it's there way or not at all. *shrugs* goes to show you most people are not openmided and refuse to learn.

 

justagirl, welcome.

 

Say what?

BTW, welcome to sci-forums..

What do you mean that Moses attempted to explain evolution?

when?

What part of the bible states this?

please respond as it does sound interesting!!.

 

Cris,

I don't think that changes in the gene pool is an issue. After all, every generation of humans is slightly different than the previous generation.

Do you believe in the general theory of evolution as defined by
evolutionist Kerkut as ‘the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.’?

 

Sticking my nose in

Kerkut's notion is incorrect. There is no reason for life to have arisen from a single source. Accepting that a specific set of conditions on Earth would result in life, it is possible for that transition from the inorganic to the organic to take place repeatedly and independently. It didn't have to happen everywhere, but more than likely that transition occurred more than once. Then again, how broadly are we drawing that single source?

thanx,
Tiassa

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Genesis 1 verse 1-3(the Big Bang)


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.




Fifteen Billion years ago, give or take a few billion years either way, the Universe was confined to an atomic Nucleus. This is the moment before Creation when space and time did not exist. An explosion, trillion of degress in temperatrure, created particles, matter,energy,space, and TIME. (source Creation of a Cosmology: The Big Bang Theory)Hmmm reading both of those statements and saying hey they agree with each other afterall. How strange this Man called Moses could write about the big bang theory somewhere around 1420 bc. That must of been one nice dream seeing all of that happen and I have to say with his lack of knowledge he did a good job of describing the events.Genesis 1 3 -5




And God said, " Let there be light, and then there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he se perated the light from the darkness. God called the light day and the darkness he called night, and there was the evening and there was morning the first day.




The universe for the next 300,00 years would be begin to cool. The expansion allowed for light and matter to go there sperate ways.(source Creation of the Cosmology: The Big Bang Theory. OMG once again they say the same as I realize that Moses even knew that light happened later. But I should point out Moses saw all of this in a dream and once again he did a good job of trying to explain what he saw with limited knowledge.(He didn't go to College and had no books)



Genesis 1 verse 6-8


And God said Let there be an expanse between the waters to seperate water from water. So God made the expanse and seperated the water under the expanse from the water above. And it was so. God called the expanse sky. And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.





Moses was talking about the earth evolving into a planet to support life as the atmosphere and clouds began to appear.





Genesis 1 verse 9-13




God said Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let the dry ground appear. And it was so. God called the dry ground land, and the gathered waters he called seas. And God saw that was Good. Then God said Let the land produce vegetation seed bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with with seed in it, according to their various kinds, And it was so. The Land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seeds according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and then there was morning the third day.





Well we all know that trees and plants slowly grow and they don't grow in one day. God started it all with the Big bang in a moment of time and then it evolved. Moses had this dream from God and he awoke the next morning and shared the dream with the world. The dream happened in one dream or a day but evolution as we know it takes time. Moses is the first human to talk about the Big Bang and Evolution as the Big Bang started evolution. Do you always know what your pet and God wants???Your human just like Moses and it is my prayer that the religions of the world will wake up and quit fighting knowledge and accept the fact the men who wrote the Bible were human and made mistakes. It's sad, they know all men in today's time make mistakes but they assume men from those days didn't. Those men even killed in God's name at times and that's the biggest proof they were human as Jesus said " Love your enemies and if your brother hits you , turn the other check and let him hit you again" Moses story of evolution is still the greatest proof of God as he wrote about it 1420BC...I still get angry with Darwin not giving credit to Moses for writing about it first..

 

justagirl

The problem is that scientists don't follow a big bang as something from nothing, now. There was no doubt a prior form of space that compacted and exploded. There is reason to believe that this is a cycle. Another problem lies in in the descriptions in Genisis. If what you say is right then the Earth is also 15 billion years old as well as humans. Every set of dates on Earth put it around 1/3 that age.

More dangerous territory. What is a "day." Moses and the Hebrews were worse off than a lack of schooling. They were a violent pack of nomads. Their only value to the Mesopotamian world was as slaves. Moses thought he talked to Yahweh on Mount Sinai. Also remember that they were guessing. Whether you choose to latch on to a vaguely worded guess is irrelevant; they missed the boat and chose to go with a deity creating the universe. That is a huge error.