I would entirely agree, except from the other position, which regards the elevation of ancient myth by modern people who are supposed to know better as a particular kind of denial, which begins by lying to oneself. If ancient people are merely guilty of creating gods to explain phenomena for which they had no science, then the modern believers have recreated God out of the lie that the available science which explains the formerly inexplicable phenomena is denied as defective since it does not comport with ancient mythology, which is egregious fallacy compounded by an element of psychopathy. I would then simply conclude that God is a lie used to prop up some deeper pathological issues not yet resolved in the believer. I would go a little further and argue that proof that God does not exist is available by considering all kinds of proofs against the most obvious paradoxes. For example, God can't create or kill "him"self. Omnipotence is self-paradoxical enough. God can't be ... impotent? Nor can God act outside of time and space. That makes it impossible for God to create anything at the outset of the Big Bang since even wildest pretenses of magic and miracles do not cover boundary conditions. There simply can't be any waving of the wand within the first Planck time of the Big Bang. God can't even pull a rabbit out of a hat when there is no clock ticking in any reference frame we choose to put "him" in. And if God arrives on the scene later than the first tick, then "he" misses the bus; the universe is already on its way to creating itself without divine intervention. Of course his real names are (in the only discussion that matters, the one against fundies) Elohim and Yahweh. The Elohim are the pantheon of gods from the predecessor cult, probably an offshoot from nearby Ugarit. Yahweh is the God of the pseudo-monotheists who still clung to Yahweh's queen/fertility goddess/wife Asherah as one of probably several lesser gods of early Israelite tradition. For them, even God needed a wife, which conflicts with omnipotence and its incongruence with being needy. In any case, two completely different imaginations of how God is configured ought to clue in any thoughtful believer as to the nature of religion at the outset of its oldest traditions. Of course that was predicated on thoughtfulness, which is diametrically opposed to mindset of fundamentalism. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Not to flog a dead horse, but those ideas did come to mind on reading your post. I enjoy your contributions here, even if you only pop in occasionally. I suspect the typical reader would agree that your posts liven up the threads, and you represent the case against God very nicely.
************* M*W: It's a 'he,' because the patriarchy said so. Besides, goddesses (or is more than one called "goddessi?") have been too busy cleaning up the mess the Patriarchy has made all over the world. Then, they demonized our ancient sisters into witches, midwives and she-devils a la Lilith and Eve. When the Matriarchy ruled the world, they saw no need for any woman to be a dying demi-goddess savior-ette. Goddesses don't die, we only bleed.
************* M*W: Thank you so much for your comment. How refreshing! I usually don't get kind responses to my posts. I have previously been nominated in the category of "Atheist-Most-Likely-To-Rot-In-Hell."
God/Universe = occupied space Physical/energy = spirit-1 Metaphysical intention = spirit-2 ..concepts of space--- ex area of circle or any polygonal or polyhedral shape --- not a space i.e. not an actual space, only concepts having to do with spatility/spaciality.... Gravity aka gravitational spacetime is quasi-physical/energy because it is ultra-micro and eternally beyond our ability to quantize, tho some believe, that, someday humans will quantify gravity via geometry or some other mathmatical means. Soul = biological Viruse's only have RNA or DNA not both and are the 'twilight organism/biological' that is between being more likened to less animat/inanimate mineral, and the more animate biological i.e. the virus is dormant like a mineral but once insided a biological cell it becomes animate/active and replicates itself as tho it were alive i.e. a real live wire. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! r6
There are perspectives on God which do not contradict our current scientific findings, but NONE of them have any empirical data on god afaik. They are philosophical interpretations of empirical data and other non-empirical data such as emotions. if you want to find empirical data on god you will be looking a long time i think. I would suggest that we ask for empirical data for all other philosophical interpretations as well, if it is going to be required for philosophical interpretations of god. Oh, and also that the fundies from the theist side not pretend they have empirical data on god, that is weird too.
What you are calling spirits are potentials, inherent latent abilities, which may or may not become reality.
Spirit > Physical > Soul > Biological >< truth <Ttruth < TRUTH Dictionarys are a dime a dozen these days. When you want find the truth read some dictionary's as I've suggested. If you still can not understand that spirit-1 = physical/energy then we maybe go the next level to help you find the truth. We can lead a horse to truth but cannot make them accept it. Soul-1 = biological--five kingdoms Soul-2 = pattern/geometry etc.... The truth is out there for those with sincere desire and some effort to find it. r6
I guess you found your spirits in a bottle. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But now that we have arrived at the Well of Truth, allow me to offer you some truths which cannot be found in the dictionary. Moreover, as you do not provide links and make your audience do all the research I shall hold you to that also and with your sincere desire, hopefully will put some effort to find it. I realize we are in the philosophy sub-forum, but you attempt to use scientific equations to prove Truth from the word "spirit" is non-sensical and hopelessly flawed. "It is not only not right, it is not even wrong" (Pauli) But then in the spirit world anything is possible so I hope that eventually you will enter the "Spirit-Born Kingdom of God-Beings! A Royal Family that we can enter".
Alcohol is physical/energy ergo spirit-1. Simple not complex. You still have not found the dictionary definitions of spirit as physical/energy. When people see a young calf, col or fawn running and kicking their heels high, out if a field, it often said, that that animal has alot of spirit meaning that animal has alot of energy to expend running and kicking. This is every dacy common sense that spirit-1 = physical/energy that have not yet found the dictionary truths of such, much less everyday common sense used by everyday common people. So you need me to find you a dictionary definition to verify what I've stated. So here you go and this is the very first one in my search. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit 1) spir·it noun \ˈspir-ət\ : the force within a person that is believed to give the body life, energy, and power If you still don't understand that spirit-1 = energy'physical then I may try and help you find a 2nd dictionary definition. The only nonsense, is that you cannot grasp a simple concept that common person has no problem understanding. "spirit world", Huh? If you mean Universe, then yes the Universe = spirit-1. b More obvious comnon sense to common person, that does not want to play nonsensical mind games. imho I've made you aware of two primar and specific concepts associated with the word spirit. that you cannot accept these truths is inability to grasp simple concepts. Spirt-1 and spirit-2. If you cannot make the distinction between the two, then you need to start with a dictionary as dictionaries are what the common people refer too when wanting to better understand the varied meangings of words, verify those with what I've posted here. r6
God = Universe Spirit = Physical/energy God = Universe Universe = Occupied Space Occupied Space = gravity, fermions( matter ) and boson( force ) gravity = quasi-physical Fermions( matter ) and bosons( force ) = physical/energy. Physical/energy = spirit-1 The young animal has a lot of extra energy/physical/spirit-1 to expend. The old persons spirit-1/physical/energy is diminishing. This plain ole every day common sense that I believe a 10 year can grasp. Some poeple get conditioned by religion or formal education or whatever and they can not grasp or accept simple, common sense concepts. It is tho they have given their minds away to something or someone or some authority that keeps them trapped in falsehoods and nonsense. The integration of many sciences-- ergo words and definitions --- is only increasing in their overlap as interrconnected/interlinked oneness. r6
rr6, you are not being very scientific in your communication. In order to properly communicate what you are trying to say, you have to be a lot more detailed, organized and specific, following a clear thread. You also need to draw from the already existing science and experimental evidence, and from that give the more in-depth interpretation you are trying to convey. cole grey said it well.. Try to start where you finished...
