Gender identity: Crazy/delusional?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Dinosaur, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    If a person believes he/she Napoleon or a reincarnation of him, he is considered insane or delusional. Similarly for belief in being a reincarnation of some 16th century woman.

    If a person believes that he is a man born into a woman's body or a similar belief for a woman, he/she is considered to have some gender identity problem.

    Why is the former insane & the latter not less insane, but still insane?
     
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Napoleon was a specific person who is now dead. Gender identity isn't insanity. Gender is more than sexual organs, it's a social construct.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It is not. Gender identity is not insanity, any more than homosexuality is.
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. Millions of people believe in reincarnation and aren't considered insane.
     
  8. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I am sorry I used the word insane, which implies or indicates some level of functional disability. Delusional is a better word in this context.

    From Magical Realist Post #4
    From the Master of Sinanju (one of my favorite fictional characters.)
    I classify reincarnation as a foolish idea, unsupported by any evidence other than anecdotes.
     
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    It still doesn't qualify as delusional. Lots of people believe in the supernatural and the afterlife. In fact goin by the numbers one would say it is pretty normal.

    de·lu·sion·al
    dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/
    adjective
    1. characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
      "hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia"
    https://www.google.com/search?sourc...&oq=delusional&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2674j0j8
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, no more so than homosexuality or monogamy is delusional.
     
  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    You appear to be delusional with trying to rationalise

    Lots of people believe in the supernatural and the afterlife

    equating a numerical aspect

    In fact goin by the numbers one would say it is pretty normal.

    with a definetion of de·lu·sion·al

    which defines that they are indeed

    delusional and not pretty normal.

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  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You have no idea what "idiosyncratic" means do you?
     
  13. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Pong 1

    idiosyncratic

    adjective

    Deviating from the customary:

    bizarre, cranky, curious, eccentric, erratic, freakish, odd, outlandish, peculiar, quaint, queer, quirky, singular, strange, unnatural, unusual, weird.

    Slang: kooky, screwball.

    British Slang: rum, rummy.

    characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
    "hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia"

    characterized by or holding bizarre
    beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
    "hospitalization for schizophrenia and bizarre paranoia"

    characterized by or holding cranky beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
    "hospitalization for schizophrenia and cranky paranoia"

    characterized by or holding curious beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
    "hospitalization for schizophrenia and curious paranoia"

    characterized by or holding eccentric beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
    "hospitalization for schizophrenia and eccentric paranoia"

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  14. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    Reasonable people of either biological sex could strive to emulate the various attributes of Napoleon, and be conditioned to be like him, but the fact that Napoleon is long since deceased, and reincarnation has yet to be established as a viable occurrence, claiming to actually be Napoleon is arguably insane.

    Unless innate biological sexual characteristics only are required to define gender, a person of either biological sex, possessing requisite attributes, could reasonably qualify to be included in a given gender.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    What makes you think that gender identity is akin to someone who thinks they are the reincarnation of a dead person?
     
  16. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    In humans, delusions of various kinds are normal. Normal doesn't mean clinically sane, it just means an accepted standard of belief or behaviour, which varies according to culture.
    In a society of uptight high collar and bloomers wearing Victorians, an average Hawaiian's work attire would seem eccentric at the least - and vice versa. However, the attitudes of the majority to the exceptional would be quite different: the Victorians would condemn the half-naked savage, while the Hawaiians would smile indulgently at the stuffed shirt.

    Whether gender identities and presentations have a physical or psychological origin, they are no more destructive than a preference for various kinds of attire.
    What differs greatly is how societies respond to the individual who doesn't match the majority. In some communities, people accept one another as they are; in others, the majority persecutes all deviation from their preconceived norm; in some, the self-proclaimed 'normals' (however many kinds of delusion they themselves harbour) just keep harping on what's wrong with people who are not like them.

    I have to wonder what they find so threatening in matters that don't affect them in any way.
     
  17. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Good queston Dinosaur an Jeeves cleared it up perfectly... eh.!!!
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    More like "out of phase with the socially-defined view".
     
  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    No no no

    No delusion of any type are normal

    Normal doesn't mean clinically sane

    Nobody is claiming that

    Someone who is delusional is NOT normal

    If they were normal they would be called normal

    Since they are delusional they are called delusional

    Humpty Dumpty with Poe

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  20. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    LGBTQ folks just don't bother me. I don't care what they do, where they go, where they pee. They are absolutely no threat to me whatsoever. They shouldn't be discriminated against in any way. Why can't the rest of the world have the same attitude?
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Anything the majority subscribes to in any society is considered normal.
    When everyone believed that the earth is flat and the sun comes up from underneath it every morning, believing that was normal. Not believing that was considered delusional or heretical or whatever they called people who didn't believe what everyone else believed. If a delusion of any kind - Trump is going to fix the American economy; torture is effective; capitalist create wealth - is held by the majority, it's not called a delusion, it's called normal.
    What things are called is not always what they are.
     
  22. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Everyone I know down here is hoping for the next ice age to come quickly because we want to watch a 2 km thick glacier push Ontario off the map. So I guess that would be considered normal down here.
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I agree and hope most people would agree

    Unfortunately many people act under the impression that they are acting under instructions from the big bloke who lives in the sky above the clouds

    It seems the big bloke doesn't like those who depart from his plan even though he gave them free will to do so

    Those down here who kiss the big bloke's output disposal region aim also to get on his good side for extra Brownie points by disliking those who he dislikes

    Unfortunately over and above that stupid thinking there is a real Earth bound problem

    From my understanding it appears that you, as a individual person, will be able to choose which gender you wish to be recognised as

    With as I understand more than 50 already in existence and no doubt more on the way soon restrooms in restaurants will outnumber customers because you never know who is going to turn up

    And how many oddballs out there will claim to be of a gender which will enable them to engage in their oddball behaviour?

    THAT'S the problem

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