God’s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God’s second command to accomplish the first

The bulk of my last post was in response to:

I was essentially exploring the usefulness of this statement to make sense of the idea that Adam and Eve could be intelligent sexually mature adults without the ability to make the sort of moral choices that everyone makes today.

 

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Ok, so why would merely "knowing" something make it evil all of a sudden?

Adam and Eve have sex. Everything's great. They eat an apple from the tree of knowledge. Ok.
Now, they "know" what sex is. But, considering they're the only two humans in the whole universe...chances are they are monogamous.

So. What have they done wrong?

Why is sex moral one minute and then after eating of the tree of knowledge, it's not?

This is more of a fly in the ointment for us theists than you atheists!
Just sayin!

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The greater issue is that the game was actually rigged anyway. As a former Christian myself I used to make sense of it in the following way: God's end-game was to have his own counterpart, just like all the animals had one, and just like Adam had one. That counterpart was to be a bunch of people whom, given a real choice, would decide to be with him. Thus man had to be in a state where that choice was possible. Thus the fall had to happen. Thus God set things up so it would.

It does of course raise some other obvious issues though.

 

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Lol @ the game was rigged

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You make me laugh!

The story is ok in metaphor. But, it just doesn't work as a literal representation of man and the virtues of morality.
Because it paints God as an Ogre waiting to smite us.
:/

But, it can show free will and cause and effect.

The religious component of this is that these two "ruined" it for the rest of us.

Huh?

So, we are all born with "original sin?"

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You do not think God a prick for putting Satan right beside Eve, with his God given power to deceive the whole world, and when Eve is tempted as she cannot resist such power, God follows through by murdering them both through neglect.

If you do not think that God a prick then your morals are of the lower animals whom you say have none.

What is that God to you?
A good father?

Regards
DL

 

Rigged, yes.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God knew before A & E were even created that they would sin and he put Satan in Eden to make damned sure that they did just that.

Seems being creator was not enough for us to adore his immoral ass. So he devised Eden to also make himself our savior after condemning us in his rigged game.

If you have that many doubts and uncomfortable conclusions, why are you a theist?

Regards
DL

 

My doubts have more to do with how the bible was compiled...and by who.

In a nutshell....why do I believe?

Science says uncaused and I say..hmmm...I believe there is a Cause. A Creator.

From personal reasons to non personal reasons, that is why.

Now...Don't judge me!

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I tried but can't help myself.

Not being an atheist, I can understand that you have a spiritual itch to scratch.

Why you would want to choose a genocidal son murdering God is beyond me though.

Not only do I not have to deal with things like this that you have to ---

[video=youtube;G_-nHw0_Fos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos&feature=player_embedded[/video]

---the God I know allows me to find the best moral position and stick to it.

I urge you to sort of switch. Not so much from Christianity but to a new way of following Jesus that the churches never teach.

The right way and a way that is close to what gave me my apotheosis.

[video=youtube;FdSVl_HOo8Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y[/video]

Regards
DL

 

Greatest I am....I appreciate your diplomacy. ^^
Thank you.

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Once again, that idea is the gist of the story. You must find science fiction very confusing.

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Imagine a world with only two humans, one male and one female. There is no culture. There is no knowledge base for them to work from. All there is is curiosity (which we are assuming is innate in humans). The curiosity will lead to exploration and experimentation. Some experimentation may be pleasurable and some may not. Unsurprisingly, they will continue what is pleasurable and discontinue what is not.

There is no need for prior knowledge. They will invent sex on their own, quite naturally. As I suggested in another post, most of us invent masturbation exactly like that. Most of us also "play doctor" and would invent sexual intercourse just as naturally if we weren't surrounded by a society that insists on stopping us from doing it but inundates us with information about it.

If you understand the science-fiction setting of the Adam and Eve story you can see how wrong the OP is.

 

If a creator is eternal, that also means the universe is uncaused. But then the universe could be eternal.

 

Satan isn't even in the story. You're attacking the embellishments of Dante, Milton, et al., not the Bible.

There is a snake who plays a role similar to the role played by Satan in other stories but the snake doesn't deceive Eve; he tells her the truth:

God Himself confirms that it is true:

God may have lied or he may have changed His mind; the story isn't clear on that.

 

At least science fiction makes sense.

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Wouldn't the Creator be the cause?

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Because the creator, if eternal, is itself uncaused.

 

There's good science fiction and bad science fiction.

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While I understand the "uncaused" theory, a light bulb just went off that what u are saying: the universe doesn't need to have a cause to exist. How do we reconcile "cause and effect" then?
Just curious.

Yup!

 

One way is to notice that it begins when the clock starts ticking. There is no clock at the instant of creation - no time, no cause, no effect.

 

I blush. Thanks.

Regards
DL

 

You forget Eves hymen.

What natural inclination could cause a man, --- if Adam was a man and not a boy but the question applies either way, --- who knows nothing of sex, would make him think it is natural to try to poke skin right through with his penis?

This I gotta hear.

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Regards
DL

 

I agree completely here. The Christians got it wrong.

We are discussion from the Christian view of a fall so we have to ignore what you and I know is true. They do not agree.

Regards
DL