Good and bad are actual properties (i.e. forces)

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by MattMVS7, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    First off, that example I gave of the rich person was just an example. I said nothing in regards to the idea that people can will themselves to feel positive emotions anytime they want to. That has nothing to do with my theory. My theory was simply that positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life to make our lives matter to us in good ways. You say that emotions are not the crux of humanity, but I am just not so sure on this. I had a discussion with someone who, in fact, said they were absolutely necessary. He was a highly intelligent skeptic. As a matter of fact, many highly intelligent people think like him and they also claim to have much evidence on their side as well. So, maybe this whole issue is controversial rather than a definite conclusion that you are making it out to be or I am making it out to be. But here is his reply though:

    There is a big difference between personal definitions and qualities. Just because you define your own happiness does not mean that it is actually there. That does not somehow magically make a real quality of happiness appear for you. I think our positive emotions can only be those biochemical induced euphoric states. It's no different than if there was an empty glass and you defined a quality of water to be inside that glass. That would not make a quality of water appear inside that glass. The only way to have real water inside that glass would be if you poured water inside it just as how the only real way to have happiness (positive emotions) is through your euphoric states.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. a belief alone can induce an emotional state. if one were to pull a prank on another that they won the lottery, if the victim believes it to be true, the happy (euphoric) state would still be real, even if the truth is they didn't win the lottery. of course, they will find out the truth eventually and that emotional state will change but that doesn't necessarily mean that change will result in a perpetual negative emotional state, just back to whatever emotional state they were in before.
     
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  5. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    MattMV-whatever-your-troll-name-is: Therefore I am free to define you as an empty glass full of troll-shit. You fucking idiot.
     
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  7. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    I am talking about a situation where you had no emotions whatsoever and you could not induce any emotional state no matter what you did.

    Again, you are mistaken. My intention was not to troll, but to share and express this theory I am convinced of.
     
  8. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    So now you are backpedaling - now you don't want to claim that someone who is depressed cannot experience or contribute anything good?
     
  9. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    I never said this either. I never back peddled on my theory. These depressed people can contribute something good, but they cannot experience anything good to make things matter to them in good ways. This is a world changing theory that would enlighten and awaken humanity to their positive emotions which are the only light to our lives and artistic endeavors. I am fed up with my inner light (positive emotions) being thrown out and dismissed as something trivial. It is time I spoke my mind to the point where my arguments are plausible. I think I have finally achieved that goal. This theory of mine is to be preached to the world since, like I said, I am fed up and it is time I spoke my mind.
     
  10. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    So, when you said:
    then later

    and then

    You are not in fact claiming that someone who is depressed is not, as you said "anything good and worth living"? By your own words, you are saying someone who is not happy is incapable of contributing anything positive to the world.

    Sorry Matt... whatever you think you have recovered from, it is obvious that empathy is not something you gained from it.
     
  11. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    221
    When I said that a miserable person's life cannot be good and worth living, then what I meant by this was that these miserable people cannot experience anything good to make their lives matter to them in good and worthwhile ways. I did not say that they were incapable of contributing anything good. Also, I have recovered from a 10 year hellish struggle. It was the most miserable struggle of my life induced by obsessive negative thoughts and emotionally traumatic life events. This theory is my own personal insight gained from this struggle and now it is time I shared it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

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    you are not getting where he is coming from, not that he is perfectly expressing his idea though. he means emotions regarding self-fulfillment, not how others judge their worth or contribution. it's pretty basic, just because a person fills a role in society doesn't necessarily mean they are personally happy with it. others may see them as okay but are they happy? maybe they hate their job but they are contributing. does that mean their inner happiness does not matter?

    are they being true to themselves and their own calling? societal conformity is another matter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  13. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Before you share this theory with anyone, I would highly recommend you get a good editor... because the way it is worded now, you aren't likely to help anyone who isn't already "happy" with what you are saying, even if that is what you are attempting to do.
     
  14. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

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    989
    So then it does all boil down to the simple notion that we should avoid a permanency, or default state, of negative emotions.
    Well, whodathunkit!

    Or am I missing something?
     
  15. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    221
    What it all comes down to here is, can a person experience the good and bad qualities of life without his/her emotions? Remember, thinking that you are in a state of joy, beauty, or suffering does not make it so since there is a big difference between what you think as opposed to if you really are experiencing goodness, joy, beauty, badness, and suffering.

    That example all goes back to what I explained in regards to emotions. Emotions allow us to experience these qualities while our value judgments alone in the absence of our emotions do not. They only allow us to perceive, but not experience these qualities. Experiencing would be that literal force of light (sheer goodness) or force of darkness (sheer badness) which were metaphorical descriptions I have ascribed to our emotions.

    Therefore, if you want your life to be something in the absence of your emotions, then you need the force of light or darkness through your mindset and outlook alone. If it can't be there, which my theory says it can't, then your life will amount to nothing. These experienced values are what I call the consciousness based values in my other packets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Are you a psychopath?
     
  17. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Just a friendly reminder.
     
  18. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    This is a world changing theory that would enlighten and awaken humanity to their positive emotions which are the only light to our lives and artistic endeavors. I am fed up with my inner light (positive emotions) being thrown out and dismissed as something trivial. It is time I spoke my mind to the point where my arguments are plausible. I think I have finally achieved that goal. This theory of mine is to be preached to the world since, like I said, I am fed up and it is time I spoke my mind. All the horrible misery in my life would also be dismissed as nothing more than a state of mind and a matter of me judging it as something horrible when it never was. Denying the light and darkness in my life really gets to me and angers me.

    That is why I wish to preach this theory. I know what my positive emotions are like for me and I know what my misery and hopelessness is like for me. They truly are states of goodness, beauty, joy, and hell. Also, I have recovered from a 10 year hellish struggle. It was the most miserable struggle of my life induced by obsessive negative thoughts and emotionally traumatic life events. This theory is my own personal insight gained from this struggle and now it is time I shared it. Lastly, when I say things such as that depressed people's lives can't be anything good and worth living without their positive emotions, then I don't mean that they can't contribute something good to the world. I simply mean that they can't experience anything good to make their lives matter to them in good ways.
     
  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Where's a

    Yippity Yippity That's All Folks

    when you need one?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    I just want people to take me seriously here because, as long as they treat me in the opposite manner, then they don't care about me as a human being or my human needs. They just dismiss the light and darkness in my life and it is these types of people that my theory speaks up against. I might not have evidence, but my theory should be enough to take me and my situation seriously.
     
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    You didn't take me seriously.
     
  22. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Then what you are looking for is Facebook, or perhaps LiveJournal. This is a site where evidence is everything. If you want to be taken seriously in anything resembling a scientific endeavor, you will require tangible evidence, ideally of the kind you can readily reproduce when re-testing to ensure the results are consistent.

    What you have is not a theory - it is an idea, and an unsupported one at that. There is nothing wrong with that, as most theories started as simple ideas - however, claiming it to be a universal truth on its own merit... well, that's where you will run afoul of folks. To make a theory, you have to come up with a plan, test it, and reinforce it. Then you have to be able to hold in the face of questioning and examination. Flukes or one offs are not theories.
     
  23. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    51,604
    Mental illness isn't a good perspective from which to determine truth.
    For one thing, goodness and badness are relative to the individual. Negative emotions are often extremely useful and vital to a functioning person, not something to be purged. Likewise, some things a person might think are positive could be highly detrimental to themselves or society.
     

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