Good and bad are actual properties (i.e. forces)

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by MattMVS7, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

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    989
    So you're saying that we can only experience good and bad through our emotions, even if in the absence of emotion we can still understand what others consider good and bad?
    Hardly earth-shattering news.
    Further, you are still saying that the life of people who don't have emotions won't amount to anything, which is rather harsh.
    People who suffer from lack of emotion, can amount to something just as any other person can.
    Presumably they just do so for reasons other than emotional fulfilment.

    So I'm still at a loss as to what this "theory" of yours is, and especially how this is to be a "world-changing" theory.
    You seem to be preaching simply for people to strive for positive emotions.

    Maybe it's taken you a while to get to this realisation, but that's where most of us already are.
     
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  3. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    My theory is that a life without emotions is no way to live at all and is a no quality standard of living. It can only be our positive emotions that can make our lives and artistic endeavors a good quality standard of living. Nothing can matter to you without emotions and that, to me, clearly indicates that a life without emotions is no way to live. But, according to my theory, it can only be our positive emotions that can make our lives matter to us in positive (good) ways.
     
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  5. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    This isn't what I meant when I said for people to take me seriously. There are different ways ideas can be taken seriously. One way is in regards to if they are true or not. But another way would be when it comes to the personal values of an individual's life. People should take deep consideration and never dismiss my inner light (positive emotions) as trivial things. They should never dismiss my values as bull or nonsense because that would insult me and it would only serve to dismiss my inner light and darkness.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    *sigh* It is obvious that you are either incapable of, or unwilling to, see what we are trying to tell you...

    Live Long and Prosper... but I'm out of this train wreck of a theory.
     
  8. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    If I made a claim such as that a magical fairy was real and was something very profound to me, then I would expect people to laugh at this and casually dismiss this claim. So, these types of values should be dismissed. Although, it would still be a cruel and inconsiderate act to treat this person in a mocking way. However, when it comes to claims such as saying that you cannot have a healthy relationship if you were to live with an intolerant wife or husband, these these types of claims should be taken into deep consideration since claims such as these, even without any evidence, sound like they could really be plausible unlike the claim of the fairy. My theory is the latter type of claim. It is not a claim such as a fairy. Again, my claim is: Positive emotions are the only things that can allow us to experience the good qualities of life while it is only our negative emotions that allow us to experience the bad qualities of life. I do not think this sounds like a nonsensical claim such as a fairy. Especially given all of my arguments to support it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    OK, good is positive and bad is negative. How profound.
     
  10. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    There is more to my theory than just this. When positive emotions allow us to experience the good qualities of life, then that is no different than saying that they make our lives matter to us in good ways while negative emotions can only make our lives matter to us in bad ways. Many people do not know this because, why else would we have all these famous and genius miserable artists and composers who claimed that their misery made their lives matter to them in beautiful ways? Virtually the entire world believes this lie because if you were to ask any artist today, then he/she would tell you that negative emotions such as misery can make our lives and artistic endeavors matter to us in good and beautiful ways. In other words, my theory is saying that this is all lies regardless of the fact that we are talking genius artists here. They would be negatively (badly) inspired by their misery and other negative emotions. They would not be positively (goodly) inspired through positive emotions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I do believe, however, positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement.

    :EDIT:

    That is so obvious I'm laughing at my comment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  12. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    12,419
    ^^^
    Evidently, it is not obvious to some.

    <>
     
  13. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

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    989
    You mean it's not a new world-changing theory???

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

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    989
    And why do you think that this is a "world-changing theory" rather than just a revelation to you of what you didn't previously understand?
     
  15. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps it is classified information that the world is not supposed to know. I think that my theory is true and would have obviously become true to the world. It would be such a simple and obvious truth. So, I think that others out there know that it is already true, but do not wish to release this information to the world. Imagine a world where we knew this was true. It might cause chaos and an uproar. But I have now discovered this hidden truth within myself and it is up to me to share it regardless of how offensive it is. The only reason why people would dismiss my theory as bull when it is such an obvious truth would only be because I am just an average human being presenting this truth. It would take a higher authority to present this truth along with the evidence for it to actually convince the world. Like I said, I think the reason this hasn't happened is because people don't wish to disclose this information to the world.

    I Am Like A Guy On A Commercial Pointing Out The Lies And The Real Healthy Product That Works: Have you ever seen commercials where people point out certain products that the world believed were healthy, good, beneficial, etc., but are revealed to be harmful, bad, etc.? These people would then direct everyone to a good product that actually works. I am like the guys on these commercials because I am pointing out and advertising something which says:

    "Listen, world. Being a miserable, anhedonic, or depressed person who carries on and drags on in life was never the good way to live. So many people attend to jobs and other situations that make them plain unhappy. You think that is a good and worthwhile life? It never was. All the famous and genius miserable artists were doing it all wrong, too. It was never any way to live or be an artist. Here is the real and healthy way which is truly the good, beautiful, and worthwhile way to live and be an artist. It is through our positive emotions which are the very light to our lives."

    I am a health freak, if you will. I realize the healthy and real products that work. I do not delude myself with unhealthy products that don't work. This would even apply to ways of living. I do not delude myself with a horrible, unhealthy, miserable life somehow being the good life and neither do I delude myself with the idea that a life without emotions can be anything good either. It takes a free thinker and an individual who sees the truth of what works and what beauty, joy, and goodness really is. I am that individual. Of course, I do treat depressed and miserable people with admiration and respect. But the truth of my theory still needs to be shared and preached anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  16. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

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    989
    I think you are starting from a flawed premise here.
    I know some artists, and none of them think that their misery, if they have any, made their lives matter to them.
    What they will tell you is that they may be more creative in those darker times, and what makes their lives matter is how they are able to take something out of them and turn it into something beautiful and of worth.
    What they utilise is not the negative emotion per se but their coping mechanism.
    I.e. It is not that they think their negative emotion makes their lives matter but how they react to those emotions and the final output does.
    They are distinct things.

    So I think you are starting from a flawed starting point.
    If we want to get from A to B we do not drive petrol, but we drive a vehicle fuelled by petrol.
    If the destination is something we see of worth to us then it can make the journey worthwhile, even if the fuel is misery and negative emotion... and your passenger is your mother-in-law.

    Sure, some people who never experience a positive emotion may never feel value to their life, may never feel that their artistic outlet is of any value, and I'm sure they would agree that it is no way to live, being forever a "tortured soul".

    But I don't think your "theory" is anything new.
    It's certainly not expressed particularly well, and even now I'm probably struggling to fully grasp what you're getting at, but it seems as though you have struck upon something that is a revelation to you, yet in reality is already widely understood and just common sense.
     
  17. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    But I have established in the beginning that it is a fact that we know that a life without emotions cannot matter to us at all. We can't have empathy without emotions which proves this point. So, emotions are everything to our lives and make our lives and artistic endeavors matter in either good ways (positive emotions) or bad ways (negative emotions). This means that all those miserable artists could only live lives and pursue artistic endeavors that mattered to them in bad ways. So, they were negatively (badly) inspired rather than goodly inspired through their positive emotions. Value judgments alone cannot make our lives matter to us in good or bad ways as I've said before. It is our emotions that do so.
     
  18. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    51,604
    I think you're the liar. The negative emotions against the Vietnam War, racism, and Nixon led to the Summer of Love, Woodstock, the environmental movement, gay rights movement and other liberation movements who's positive effects are still felt today.
     
  19. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

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    221
    Again, just because positive things have been achieved through negative emotions does not mean that negative emotions make our lives matter in good ways. It is through our lives mattering to us in bad ways that we can achieve good things, but this is, again, no way to live. Our positive emotions are the way to live since they make our lives matter to us in good ways. If you were in, for example, a frightening situation and you thought to yourself that it was a good idea to escape even though you had no positive emotion whatsoever, then that thought could not matter to you in a good or bad way. The fearful emotion itself is in regards to the dangerous situation and it is this dangerous situation that matters to you in a bad way. This might not make any sense to you. Therefore, this calls for a new definition of good and bad in order for this to make sense.

    The value judgment definition would say that it would matter to us in a good way to escape. I think this definition is false. But the emotional definition would say that the fearful situation mattered to us in a bad way since the negative emotion of fear was felt. In order to make this dangerous situation matter to us in a good way, then going by the emotional definition, we would have to feel a positive emotion from the idea of knowing that we would be safe. Of course, like I said before, value judgments shouldn't be dismissed. We still need them as vital tools to make wise decisions that are unreliable through our emotions. But value judgments themselves are no way to live. It is only our emotions that make our lives matter to us in good or bad ways.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  20. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Translation - You like your confirmation bias, and will dismiss, out of hand, anything that goes against what you are saying.
     
  21. MattMVS7 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    221
    I would actually word this differently. I would instead say that my positive emotions are the very light to my life while my miserable and hopeless emotions are the very darkness to my life. People shouldn't just dismiss this because that would be inconsiderate towards me and my need for my inner light. That would really get to me and make me angry. My inner light (positive emotions) make my life something good, beautiful, and a heavenly paradise. It just really gets to me that people dismiss this and treat this in a mocking and trivial manner.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  22. Baldeee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    989
    Well, you've asserted it for sure.
    Established it?
    I don't think so.
    It remains one of the assumptions of your "thesis".
    How does a lack of empathy without emotions prove that a life without emotions can not matter to us?
    You still seem to be missing the distinction between what inspires (i.e. the emotion, positive or negative) and the result of that inspiration (the art) and then how the creator views that creation.
    Just because something is inspired through a negative emotion does not mean it can have no value to the creator, or even that the value can only be negative.

    Do you think that those "miserable artists" saw no positive value in the work they produced, whether created through the inspiration of negative emotion or not?

    Again, you have asserted it.
    Do you have anything else other than your assertion?

    And what are you trying to actually assert, if not that positive emotion should be favoured over negative or none?
    Are you simply trying to say that those with only negative emotion will only see the negative values, and those with no emotion can see no value in anything?

    What do you see as negative emotions and what do you se as positive?
     
  23. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    12,843
    At least you agree that it is confirmation bias on your part.
     

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