H.R.5181

joepistole said:
Yeah, use fake news sites to debunk legitimate web sites. What a strategy. :)

The fact is is, unlike your beloved Mother Russia, there is no one or single Western news source. There are many and they span the gamut. You have the fake news and conspiracy sites, e.g. the ones you reference, and many others.

Why do you think the US government is "having a crisis"? Please be specific and provide credible proofs, i.e. something more than because Fatfreddie and his cousin said so.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
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Your website is sophistry. It's just an attempt at damage-control written by some public-relations agency.

I think I made the crisis clear but I'll reiterate. The government wants to keep people thinking inside the box so that they'll go along with its interventions; alternative sites are informing them of the truth. The crisis is that lots of formerly brainwashed Americans are now thinking outside the box. They are no longer sheeple and they won't go along with interventions in other countries because they will know the real reasons for those interventions.

You never addressed post #38. Please do so.
 
joepistole said:
Why do you think the US government is "having a crisis"?
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Can I chime in please?

I am not going to get into a ' I got more links than you ' bun fight

I don't think the US is in crisis mode

However I do think one side is having a hissey fit because they lost

They also seem to be under some weird impression that if they shout loud enough Trump will pack up and leave, go play golf somewhere and put a FOR RENT sign on the White House

Come to think of it that might not be a bad option

:)
 
FatFreddy said:
Your website is sophistry. It's just an attempt at damage-control written by some public-relations agency.
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The truth isn't website sophistry comrade. It's just the truth.

Contrary to your assertion, the US media isn't like the media in your beloved Mother Russia. It isn't controlled or owned and funded by the state. It is large and diverse. Contrary to your assertion it reflects a broad spectrum of beliefs and opinions, nor is it limited to just one state. Again, unlike your beloved Mother Russia, media outlets from all over the world participate in Western media markets: even your state owned and controlled Russian media, e.g. Russian Times.

FatFreddy said:
I think I made the crisis clear but I'll reiterate. The government wants to keep people thinking inside the box so that they'll go along with its interventions; alternative sites are informing them of the truth. The crisis is that lots of formerly brainwashed Americans are now thinking outside the box. They are no longer sheeple and they won't go along with interventions in other countries because they will know the real reasons for those interventions.
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Well if that were so then why doesn't the state own and control the Western media as it does in your beloved Mother Russia? In the US we have this thing, it's called freedom of speech. People can say whatever they want to say. It's a fundamental right.

That's why the Russian Times, an organization owned by Russia is allowed to produce and distribute information within the US and all Western countries.

You know the great irony I have observed over the years is that those who are the biggest sheeple are the ones who accuse others of being sheeple. Before you go calling others sheeple comrade you need to take a long and serious look at yourself.
 
Michael 345 said:
Can I chime in please?

I am not going to get into a ' I got more links than you ' bun fight

I don't think the US is in crisis mode

However I do think one side is having a hissey fit because they lost

They also seem to be under some weird impression that if they shout loud enough Trump will pack up and leave, go play golf somewhere and put a FOR RENT sign on the White House

Come to think of it that might not be a bad option

:)
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I think you are deluding yourself. I don't see any evidence of the left throwing a hissy fit. They acknowledged Trump's victory. They peacefully surrendered the office. But they are also standing up for what they believe. That's an old and very noble American tradition. It isn't a hissy fit. You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss your fellow Americans.

Democrats aren't expecting Trump to go away. That's nonsense. Whither the US is in crisis mode depends upon how you define crisis. Let's just say things are not going smoothly for Trump. He is the most unpopular POTUS in American history and the man is only 3 weeks into his presidency.

If things continue down this course, if it is revealed that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to affect the election output, Trump could very well be impeached. If it is discovered Trump has extensive financial ties with Russia, Trump could very well be impeached. Overseas where betting on things like this is legal, the odds are very good Trump will be impeached by a Republican congress.

That's huge. Republicans don't criticize much less impeach a sitting Republican POTUS without overwhelming cause. I expect congress will investigate this issue and as part of that process they will subpoena Trump's tax returns, and when those tax returns are exposed, I think it's over for Trump, regardless of what happens with the Russian interference investigation and his possible corroboration in that effort. I fully expect Trump will be impeached, and he may well be the first POTUS to be impeached and removed from office. That will be a constitutional crisis. Trump will not go into the night quietly. It's not in his personality. Trump's a narcissist. In his world he never does anything wrong. That's why he has such difficulty admitting his mistakes. But I fully expect him to be impeached and forcibly removed from office. I expect in a few months Pence will become the next POTUS. I expect Pence will become the 46th POTUS, and that might happen this year.

Now that's not what I want. I don't think any American wants a constitutional crisis. If Trump is successful at making the country more free, more safe, and more prosperous we all benefit. But I don't think that's where Trump is headed.

When Obama was elected in 2008 he already had his fiscal stimulus passed through congress. Trump hasn't even started on his. Instead, he has become mired in his self inflicted wounds. So no, I'm not optimistic about a Trump presidency. He has given me no reason to believe in him or his abilities. He hasn't demonstrated any intellect. He hasn't demonstrated any of leadership ability he will need to lead this nation. That's a problem.

I don't know who Democrats would prefer as president. Trump's an easy target. He's a perpetual incompetent and a buffoon. That's politically advantageous to Democrats. The wake of chaos he leaves in his wake would be politically advantageous to Democrats in 2018. Pence is a blank slate. He certainly is more credible, and he isn't a buffoon, and he is very conservative: probably more conservative than Trump.
 
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joepistole said:
You shouldn't be so quick to dismiss your fellow Americans.
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:) As an Australian I don't sorry :)

As for the reminder of your post I agree you have a viewpoint

Unrealistic I think but a viewpoint

My expectation is Trump will straighten up, fly straight and win the next election should he decide to run

The other option which no-one has taken me up on is to swap our Prime Minister Turnbull for Trump

We can throw in Abbott a ex Prime Minister

And as a bonus you can have Pauline Hanson for Melania Trump

Deal?
 
Michael 345 said:
:) As an Australian I don't sorry :)

As for the reminder of your post I agree you have a viewpoint

Unrealistic I think but a viewpoint

My expectation is Trump will straighten up, fly straight and win the next election should he decide to run

The other option which no-one has taken me up on is to swap our Prime Minister Turnbull for Trump

We can throw in Abbott a ex Prime Minister

And as a bonus you can have Pauline Hanson for Melania Trump

Deal?
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Well, people have been saying Trump will straighten up and fly right for over a year now and he hasn't. I see no reason to expect he will change. I don't think it is in him. I don't think his narcissistic personality will allow it. Trump is who he is. He won't change, because he doesn't see the problem. He can't. His personality won't allow it.
 
billvon said:
A lot of his supporters thought he would do that as soon as he won the election. But he's just getting worse.
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joepistole said:
Well, people have been saying Trump will straighten up and fly right for over a year now and he hasn't. I see no reason to expect he will change. I don't think it is in him. I don't think his narcissistic personality will allow it. Trump is who he is. He won't change, because he doesn't see the problem. He can't. His personality won't allow it.
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I live in hope

:)
 
Joepistole

You still haven't addressed post #38.

Please clarify. Do you consider Smedley Butler to be a credible source of info to be taken seriously?
 
FatFreddy said:
Joepistole

You still haven't addressed post #38.

Please clarify. Do you consider Smedley Butler to be a credible source of info to be taken seriously?
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Are you seriously that dense? I've explained to you whatever Smedley Butler said or did say or thing, isn't relevant, because times have changed. More than a century has passed and things have changed. People have changed; economic systems have changed; attitudes and opinions have changed. Imperialism is dead, your beloved Russia excepted. It died more than a century ago.

Go back a little longer and slavery was legal. That doesn't mean slavery is legal today. Why is that so difficult for you to understand comrade?

Butler was an anti-imperialist as were most Americans except for a very brief period: the period Butler witnessed. What Butler witnessed is no longer relevant, because things have changed, and changed significantly.

Butler isn't relevant to current circumstances comrade. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? You really need to think about that question.
 
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joepistole said:
I've repeatedly told you whatever he may have said is irrelevant for the previously given reasons. What don't you get about irrelevant?
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You don't even know what the point I'm going to make is yet so it may turn out to be relevant. Sincere truth-seekers don't avoid questions. Please answer the question. Do you agree that Smedley Butler said that the US was an imperial power that exploited other countries?
 
FatFreddy said:
You don't even know what the point I'm going to make is yet so it may turn out to be relevant. Sincere truth-seekers don't avoid questions. Please answer the question. Do you agree that Smedley Butler said that the US was an imperial power that exploited other countries?
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Oh, I do know the point you are making. You have made it quite clear. And the fact remains, whatever Butler said isn't relevant today more than a century later.

Truth seekers shouldn't use irrelevant questions to obfuscate as you have done comrade. If all you do is focus on irrelevant data, you will do nothing but delude yourself as you have done.
 
joepistole said:
Oh, I do know the point you are making. You have made it quite clear. And the fact remains, whatever Butler said isn't relevant today more than a century later.

Truth seekers shouldn't use irrelevant questions to obfuscate as you have done comrade. If all you do is focus on irrelevant data, you will do nothing but delude yourself as you have done.
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I want you to make your position clear on this issue as you didn't quite do so in post #27.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3435054

Please make your position clear. Do you acknowledge that Smedley Butler said that the US was an imperialist power that exploited smaller countries? This is a simple question. There's no way an objective person could construe this as obfuscation. Please answer the question.
 
FatFreddy said:
I want you to make your position clear on this issue as you didn't quite do so in post #27.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3435054

Please make your position clear. Do you acknowledge that Smedley Butler said that the US was an imperialist power that exploited smaller countries? This is a simple question. There's no way an objective person could construe this as obfuscation. Please answer the question.
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LOL...

I have repeatedly made myself clear, crystal clear. You just don't like it comrade, and that's not my problem. It's yours.

I don't know how I can be more clear. Whatever Butler said, isn't relevant for all the reasons that have been repeatedly pointed out to you comrade. Butler lived more than a century ago. The world has changed and changed dramatically since then.

So you cannot honestly say, as you have done, that Butler's experiences are relevant to today. They aren't. The imperialism Butler wrote about disappeared a century ago. Therefore his experiences aren't relevant or representative of today. It really is that simple comrade.

But here is your problem, and why you are so reluctant to admit the obvious. If you admit the flaw in your logic your thesis crumbles. Maybe you should rethink your thesis rather than continue your embrace of fiction...just saying. :)
 
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joepistole said:
LOL...

I have repeatedly made myself clear, crystal clear. You just don't like it comrade, and that's not my problem. It's yours.

I don't know how I can be more clear. Whatever Butler said, isn't relevant for all the reasons that have been repeatedly pointed out to you comrade.
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What you're doing is avoiding the question because you're checkmated. You say that the mainstream media are objective and the alternative press isn't. Butler's saying that the US was an imperialist power exposes the dishonesty of the mainstream as none the info to which Americans had access before the arrival of the internet informed them of this.

You'll never admit it but you've been shown to be wrong. This clear dishonesty on the part of the mainstream destroys its credibility and your trying to avoid the issue destroys your credibility. You're not an objective truth-seeker.
 
FatFreddy said:
What you're doing is avoiding the question because you're checkmated. You say that the mainstream media are objective and the alternative press isn't. Butler's saying that the US was an imperialist power exposes the dishonesty of the mainstream as none the info to which Americans had access before the arrival of the internet informed them of this.

You'll never admit it but you've been shown to be wrong. This clear dishonesty on the part of the mainstream destroys its credibility and your trying to avoid the issue destroys your credibility. You're not an objective truth-seeker.
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LOL....

You really are delusional. :)

I don't think Butler ever said the US was an imperial power. But he was against imperialism, and has been repeatedly pointed out to you and repeatedly ignored by you, Butler existed more than a century ago. The age if imperialism died more than a century ago. Yet you continue to live in a self created bubble of fiction.

If the US is an imperialist power as you have asserted, then you should be able to produce evidence more current than what some guy who lived and died more than a century ago thought.
 
joepistole said:
LOL....

You really are delusional. :)

I don't think Butler ever said the US was an imperial power. But he was against imperialism, and has been repeatedly pointed out to you and repeatedly ignored by you, Butler existed more than a century ago. The age if imperialism died more than a century ago. Yet you continue to live in a self created bubble of fiction.

If the US is an imperialist power as you have asserted, then you should be able to produce evidence more current than what some guy who lived and died more than a century ago thought.
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You don't seem to have read what he said. Here's a link to where I posted some excerpts.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3435799

Please read what he said and then tell me if you still think that he didn't say that the US was an imperial power that exploited other countries.
 
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