Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Or those awful pickled radishes!
Health Benefits Of GreenTea
- Thread starter martineargent
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I'd think alcohol would be better, it can relieve everything you have within an hour if you drink lots of it! 
when i drink green tea my eyelids shribble up. they get all puckered.
here i was trying to be healthy, drinking green tea every day, and wondering what the hell was going on with my eyelids. i thought i might be dehydrated, but i was drinking a lot of water at the same time, so i went to the doctor.
the doctor told me i wasn't dehydrated, and that my symptom was caused by migraines. but i didn't have a headache.
so i went for a second opinion and got the same answer.
i stopped drinking green tea, and my eyelids went back to normal.
???
here i was trying to be healthy, drinking green tea every day, and wondering what the hell was going on with my eyelids. i thought i might be dehydrated, but i was drinking a lot of water at the same time, so i went to the doctor.
the doctor told me i wasn't dehydrated, and that my symptom was caused by migraines. but i didn't have a headache.
so i went for a second opinion and got the same answer.
i stopped drinking green tea, and my eyelids went back to normal.
???
Green tea is often touted as being a 'miracle' health drink. Nail this one down. There is no such thing as a miracle health food or drink.
Green tea is considered good because it has lots of anti-oxidant in it. That is correct, and drinking moderate amounts of green tea is almost certainly a healthy habit. But ....
It is also true that there are a heap of other materials that have lots of anti-oxidants. Pretty much all fruit, and all green, yellow, red, and blue vegetables have lots of anti-oxidants.
It is also true that different anti-oxidants appear to work a little differently to others. For example the anti-oxidants in tomatoes have been linked to a reduction in prostate cancer.
Coffee drunk in moderation has a clear link to a reduction in the incidence of type II diabetes. Black Indian tea has lots of anti-oxidants. Chocolate has lots of anti-oxidants, but is overall bad for you because of the extra calories, and because none of us can resist over-eating on chocolate!
Overall the message is clear. There are no miracle foods and drinks. The best approach is variety. Do not over-do any food or drink, but try to get a big variety of good food and drink.
Incidentally, beer is thirst quenching. Consumption of alcohol increases kidney function, and causes more water to be excreted, but if you take in enough water, that more than compensates. Strong alcoholic drinks, like wines and spirits, contain too little water, but beer has ample water for the amount of alcohol so that the water intake exceeds the extra water excreted. So beer is thirst quenching.
Green tea is considered good because it has lots of anti-oxidant in it. That is correct, and drinking moderate amounts of green tea is almost certainly a healthy habit. But ....
It is also true that there are a heap of other materials that have lots of anti-oxidants. Pretty much all fruit, and all green, yellow, red, and blue vegetables have lots of anti-oxidants.
It is also true that different anti-oxidants appear to work a little differently to others. For example the anti-oxidants in tomatoes have been linked to a reduction in prostate cancer.
Coffee drunk in moderation has a clear link to a reduction in the incidence of type II diabetes. Black Indian tea has lots of anti-oxidants. Chocolate has lots of anti-oxidants, but is overall bad for you because of the extra calories, and because none of us can resist over-eating on chocolate!
Overall the message is clear. There are no miracle foods and drinks. The best approach is variety. Do not over-do any food or drink, but try to get a big variety of good food and drink.
Incidentally, beer is thirst quenching. Consumption of alcohol increases kidney function, and causes more water to be excreted, but if you take in enough water, that more than compensates. Strong alcoholic drinks, like wines and spirits, contain too little water, but beer has ample water for the amount of alcohol so that the water intake exceeds the extra water excreted. So beer is thirst quenching.
I agree with your main point, but for prostate cancer there are several diet items with better scientific proof of effectiveness than either green tea or cooked tomatoes. Their benefit if any is mild. See:
Two internet links to peer-reviewed literature mildly supporting the effectiveness of tomato follow:
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/99/14/1074
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/15/1/92.long
An internet link weakly supporting the effectiveness of green tea follows:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/137/1/223S
But the following convincingly refutes effectiveness of green tea used alone.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360636/?tool=pubmed
While it may be true that AIDS would have been detected earlier in England, you have no basis for claiming that a slightly earlier detection would have resulted in a cure when decades of research since its detection has yet to yield one.
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M*W: Sounds like you had an allergic reaction to the green tea. I had that same reaction from something else, probably medication. My eyelids would twinge. It was something neurological... a weird feeling. You described it well.
I did not claim that a cure would be found by earlier detection, of new disease, AIDs or any other. I fact, I suspect exactly the opposite is true. The only reason why at least a billion dollars has already been spent looking for a cure for AIDs is that the market for such a drug is huge and still rapidly growing.
What I claimed was that If the US had a public health service like England (and most all developed countries except the USA) then the fact that AIDs was a new disease would have been detected a few years earlier and most importantly, it would be known to be a STD strongly associated with annal intercourse. I.e. the spread of AIDs would have been stopped with very few, if any, heterosexuals infected.* PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN A CURE.
You may find it shocking, but some drugs are very expensive and provide little if any benefit. For example, Denderon's advanced cancer "drug" (some patient's blood is taken, processed to amplify his immune system's effectiveness slightly against Castration Resistant Prostate Cancer, CRPC, and then a few weeks later returned to his body - not sure that is a "drug").
On average, instead of being dead in about 3 or 4 years from Metastasized CRPC, the patient can expect to live nearly three months longer than if he does not take the "drug." It cost $92,000 per year. Assume that with out it he dies in 3.5 years but with it he dies in 3 years and 9 months at a cost to his estate of 3.75x 92,000 = $345,000, just for the drug (check ups, doctor's fees for injecting it, etc. not included).
I do not think the tax payers should be asked to pay that sum to give him 3months longer life. Do you? If he is wealthy and wants to reduce his estate (perhaps has no grandchildren), fine - that is his choice. I could afford to do so, but would rather give each of my four grand children at least $150,000 more (That capital would grow during the three years I lived without the "drug.")
One must be realistic with the public's money so there is slight truth to Sara Palin's politically-motivated exaggerated "death panels." To be able to afford better care for the many (about three years longer life expectancy) at about half the cost of the US's "for profit" medical system, the European health care systems do not pay for very expensive, little proven benefit, drugs.
For example:
"... Britain's National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence has said again that it will not recommend Roche's Avastin for colorectal cancer because the benefits are not greater than the costs. It is the second time that NICE has issued such a draft guidance regarding Avastin for colorectal cancer use. ... " {Avastin is successful against many other cancers, but I believe the FDA has also refused to broaden the label for colorectal cancer. It is a great profit maker - 100s of millions in sales annually, I think.}
Read more about NICE not funding this application (source of the quote above) at:
http://pharmalive.com/news/index.cfm?articleID=724988&categoryid=9&newsletter=1
SUMMARY I am all for intelligent, rational, use of the taxpayer's money spent on medical services. Are you? IMHO it is a crime that the US system has so much cost in giving profits to private companies that the average American dies nearly three years earlier than the average European (or Canadian or Japaneses).
The drug companies spend billions annually to mislead the US public. Dishonest politicians, especially demagogs like Sara Palin, are causing Americans to have shorter lives, on average with greater medical costs than need be TO KEEP THEIR PROFITS ROLLING IN. Little wonder the drug companies are one of the biggest spending lobbies in Washington.
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* Be honest: The drug companies do not want prevention of disease. If AIDs had been contained to a less than 3000 victims that would have cost them at least 100 million dollars in profits EVERY YEAR.
From their POV AIDs is the perfect disease - you can live more than 20 years if you take their drugs. Too hell with the poor in Africa who cannot afford their drugs. Little wonder Brazil's public health service ignores their patents and makes the drug as cheaply as it can. That public health service believes in health by prevention too. In the world's largest population of Catholics, it gives out Condoms for free! That is very cost effective. In the US's for profit system, this would never be done. There is too much profit in treating people with AIDs and other STDs.
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Your numbers (11 to 15) seem to imply you are quoting from some source. What is it? I doubt some (if not all) of your claims and would like to check why they are made.
I have read a lot of journal literature on green tea, especially wrt its effects, if any, on cancer. Green tea is quite complex mix of agents that may have some beneficial effects, but if it does they are very mild, and normally not even detectable in large controlled studies (even with 1 liter / day taken). BTW, green tea is second only to water in volume humans drink so any significant effects would show up in health differences between Asians and westerners.
For slight support in surpression of prostate cancer see:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/137/1/223S Note nutrition journals do have bias toward "natural foods" giving benefits, when they can not be confirmed in well controlled studies.
But the following convincingly refutes benefit of green tea used alone. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360636/?tool=pubmed
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"... The study's findings of low bioavailability and/or bioaccumulation of green tea polyphenols in prostate tissue and statistically insignificant changes in systemic and tissue biomarkers from 3-6 weeks of administration suggests that prostate cancer preventive activity of green tea polyphenols, if occurring, may be through indirect means and/or that the activity may need to be evaluated with longer intervention durations, repeated dosing, or in patients at earlier stages of the disease. ..."
From: http://cancerpreventionresearch.aac...ly/2011/10/31/1940-6207.CAPR-11-0306.abstract
I.e. in addition to the large NIH study of Japanese listed at end of my last post, this is more recent evidence Green Tea's benefits (at least for prostate cancer) are just "folk lore."
From: http://cancerpreventionresearch.aac...ly/2011/10/31/1940-6207.CAPR-11-0306.abstract
I.e. in addition to the large NIH study of Japanese listed at end of my last post, this is more recent evidence Green Tea's benefits (at least for prostate cancer) are just "folk lore."
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The principle difference between green tea and black tea is that it is less oxidized. Is that the cause of its alleged health benefits?
White tea, which I've never seen or drunk, is even less oxidized than green tea. Is it therefore theoretically even better for you?
White tea, which I've never seen or drunk, is even less oxidized than green tea. Is it therefore theoretically even better for you?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040526070934.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090430194803.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tea
Most supermarkets carry white tea in the tea and coffee aisle now in the United States.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
I understand. However, the purpose of life is not merely to prolong itself. Life must also be pleasant: we should enjoy our time on this planet. I don't like the flavor of green tea so I drink black tea. Lapsang souchong, to be specific, a black tea smoke-dried over burning tar, with a powerful smoky flavor that is not to everyone's liking. (Lapsang souchong is the Cantonese name familiar in America and the U.K. It's li sheng xiao jong in Mandarin, although the written name is not standardized in Chinese. The literal meaning is in dispute and may not be real words.)
Remember: you can eat a perfect, healthy diet with no sweets, junk food, trans-fats or artificial ingredients; you can exercise vigorously for a couple of hours every day; you can give up alcohol, caffeine and all other drugs; you can relocate to a region with clean air and water; you can arise before dawn and go to bed early; you can forswear TV, videogames and all other banal recreations... but bear in mind that although this may not actually make your life any longer, it will sure feel like it.
When starting to read this, I was afraid I would find "sex" in your list of "give ups", but I see you are not crazy.... Remember: you can eat a perfect, healthy diet with no sweets, junk food, trans-fats or artificial ingredients; you can exercise vigorously for a couple of hours every day; you can give up alcohol, caffeine and all other drugs; you can relocate to a region with clean air and water; you can arise before dawn and go to bed early; you can forswear TV, videogames and all other banal recreations... but bear in mind that although this may not actually make your life any longer, it will sure feel like it.
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