Help with English

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Saint, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Correct. Bot.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    *is imperative, but otherwise, yes.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The word "imperative" means that an action is considered very important. If the imperative thing isn't done, there will be significant consequences.

    Usually, it is also implied that there's some kind of authority who is commanding that the imperative thing must be done. An imperative is like an order given by a superior or other authority.

    Personally, I wouldn't use the word "imperative" to refer to the necessity to study hard to pass your exam, since it lacks the element command. On the other hand, other people wouldn't necessarily put that connotation on it, so it's not wrong.

    Also the past-tense phrase "It was imperative..." strikes me as a bit odd. "Imperative" is almost always used in the present tense, because actions are typically considered vitally important now, whereas they don't seem quite so urgent when you look back on events at some future time. I would probably write something like "It was the expectation of management that you would arrive at the office before 9 am", or simply "You should have been at the office before 9 am."
     
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  7. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    affirm and confirm, similar?
    I affirm/confirm to meet you at the KFC restaurant this evening.
     
  8. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    compared to or compared with ?
     
  9. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    The root is Latin, of course, and the Imperator gives commands, not suggestions.

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    Saint, I would say "compared to", but I may be old-school on that...
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Point of nuance: Write "It is imperative that you study hard in order to pass examination."
    The "for" as you use it has spread in vernacular English like creeping Charlie, and will be understood by your audience, but it's a miss. It's a vague stab at the implied meaning. The sense in which an imperative can be "for" something is alien to your meaning - it is not "for" you.

    Also, in vernacular, in the apparent context you present, one "passes" via evaluation of a defined entity produced by you, with a beginning and an end, that is evaluated by someone after it is complete. Hence "an" examination, or "the examination", or even "the examinations", rather than the suggestion of an open ended process of continual evaluation of your nature or character or abilities, is more common. You are not wrong, just a bit foreign.

    There is another sense of "pass", with implications of deception or fraud (a German "passing" as a Frenchman, a con man "passing" as an expert, a forger "passing" bad checks). In that sense examination is taken as a continuing process or repeatedly encountered situation, rather than an event, and your phrasing would be normal if not common. I don't think you meant to study hard in order to deceive?
    "That" is correct. "Should" conflicts with "imperative" - pick one. "Should" implies recommendation, advice, suggestion, or best practice; "imperative" implies command, requirement, something hardnosed and non-negotiable, a minimum standard.
    There is also a problem with the tense - "was" vs "reach".
    So: "It is imperative that you reach the office before 9 AM etc - - - " or "It was imperative that you reached the office before 9 AM etc - - "
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    is there an ability to bend tense slightly ?
    "it was imperative that you had reached the office by 9am" ?
    does adding "had" define a more current pretext to the notion of time being noted as important in that instance ?

    by adding the "had" does it vaguely suggest there was some type of thing that has been missed rather than the event of missing the time ?

    "the imperative had you reached the office, would be 9am"

    creating a sentence that in its self is in past tense by its "pro-noun?"

    "The imperative you reach the office shall be 9am"
    "From 9am should you reach the office, the imperative shall be lost." pre-tense post imperative
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  12. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    old english decronstructionalism
    "Should your arrival be contrary to the imperitive, worry not for after 9"
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    "Affirm" is to make a statement. "Confirm" is to agree with somebody else's statement.

    I affirm that I will be at the KFC this evening and ask if you will meet me there. You confirm that you will.
     
  14. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    An affirmation of the confirmation may be purported to be punctually placed, periodically paused with affirmative conference.
     
  15. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    naysay = deny?
    is it commonly use?
     
  16. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    darn = damned?
     
  17. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    conservation = preservation ?
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    2 completely different meanings
    nay-say is to verbaly project a persermistic consequential outcome

    deny is to produce an action that results in a negative value to an action that is sought to produce a positive result.

    verbose jargonised vernacular dictates common usage in cultural majority.
     
  19. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Darn can be used as a euphemism for damn. But if somebody talks about "those darned socks" they might mean socks that have been mended by weaving yarn to fill in the holes.
     
  20. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Everything everyone said here is wrong if they didn't tell you:
    The meanings of words are written in dictionaries. Consult encyclopedia's for a more thorough explanation. Consult (actual) experts for an even more thorough treatment of a subject. That's the best you're going to get, but start with the dictionary.
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    example of the double negative
    statement reads
    "everything that has not been posted is not correct"

    which is a fairly dry form of humour.
    "actual experts, that apply treatments"...

    ?
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Both can be acceptable in the right context.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Dictionaries are not very good at providing context, especially when comparing similar words and common usage. And they're worse at defining phrases, such as the examples the OP is asking about.
     

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