Hey Israel, You Missed One!!

Sorry Billy, but if Hezbollah uses citizens as shields, they are the ones to blame. And besides, I was referring to other religions.

 

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Valid question.

Three ways.

1. Force- by law or community

If it is not covered by law or community action is not possible for some reason, then

2. Agitation - by speaking out or writing

If there is censorship or imprisonment and even agitation is not possible, then

3. Condemnation

i.e. do not accept injustice under any circumstance, if all fails, condemn it in your heart, at least.

Did I? If it pleases you to think so.

 

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Other religions?

I am not familiar with the Bible or Torah, but in Hinduism, when Arjuna must fight his cousins against an injustice, and is reluctant to lift his bow, he is instructed that it is his Dharma (duty) to do so.

 

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(Q)

Self-Defense in other religions.

In the bible:

From the link:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25442

"If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him," we are told in Exodus 22:2. The next verse says, "If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

In other words, it was perfectly OK to kill a thief breaking into your house. That's the ultimate expression of self-defense. It doesn't matter whether the thief is threatening your life or not. You have the right to protect your home, your family and your property, the Bible says.

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In the Torah:

From the link:
http://www.jlaw.com/Commentary/warandpeace.html

In the Jewish tradition, self defense is a moral obligation. The Torah allows people to defend their property from a thief even if this will cause the conflict to escalate into a physical battle. If there is reason to assume that the thief will use lethal force to seize the property, the owner may use physical force, and even kill the thief if necessary to protect himself (Exodus 22:1, Sanhedrin 72a). There are two rationales for allowing self defense. The first is practical; without the ability to use lethal force to stop the actions of aggressors, anarchy would reign (Chinnuch 600). The second rationale challenges the moral assumptions of nonviolence. It asserts that it is impossible to equate the lives of the aggressor and the victim; we have as a rule "that God's quest is the interests of the hunted" (Ecclesiastes 3:15). The life of the aggressor and the victim are not of equal value; if only one will survive, it is our obligation to make certain that it is the innocent person, the victim, who will survive (Cf. Rashi to Exodus 22:1).

For this reason, the Jewish tradition considers pacifism in the face of aggression to be immoral. Refusing to fight evil is to be party to evil.

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Even Buddhism which preaches only peace, is characterised by the warriors of the Shaolin temple, monks who practised kung fu to defend their temples against invaders.

 

What do you mean how is Israel making the Germans do that? They're not. The Germans are doing it themselves. You said no European country has paid back the Jews of their lost land from WWII, and I just showed you all the money the Germans -- since they're the culprits of it all -- pay to them each year and other things they do for them to compensate for the damage done to them in WWII.

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- N

 

That is what I am talking about, that the Germans on their own accord are supporting Israel, We are not alone in our support of Israel, and here is some more support from Europe,

High Council for Scientific and Technological Cooperation between ...
Ministry of Science and Technology, State of Israel. ... The financial support will be granted on an annual basis. The total fund will be supplied to the ...
http://www.most.gov.il/index.php/en...logical_cooperation_between_france_and_israel

Welcome to FIRAD The France-Israel Industrial R&D cooperation ...
France Israel Research and Development cooperation R&D industrial technology. ... OSEO provides assistance and financial support to SMEs and VSEs and help ...
http://firad.matimop.org.il/default.asp?id=17


Welcome to FIRAD The France-Israel Industrial R&D cooperation ...
France Israel Research and Development cooperation R&D industrial technology. ... OSEO provides assistance and financial support to SMEs and VSEs and help ...
http://firad.matimop.org.il/default.asp?id=17

BIOINFORMATICS
between France and Israel. Call for proposals 2006. Research Networks Program ... The financial support will be. granted on an annual basis. ...
http://www.recherche.gouv.fr/appel/2006/appelbioinformatiqueanglais.2006.pdf

 

What do you mean that's what you're talking about when you said, and I quote:

"Europe still hasn't paid the Jews for their lost property."

?

That there is the Jews being paid back.

And for the other part you're now talking about where we're not alone in our support of Israel, most of it isn't really in support of Israel, but rather it's still leftover sympathy from WWII -- Germany as the #1 prime example.

Edit: And the industrial contracts you mentioned have nothing to do with the support of Israel but rather simple business. Israeli's are smart people so obviously they're gonna wanna share and develop tech with each other. Many countries work alongside them in the weapons and intelligence industry. Those still have nothing to do with supporting them. Why do you think so many criticized em with this war? Heck, we had people working in Iraq before and after the wars, but it doesn't mean we support them, heh. Business is business. National support is a whole 'nother subject.

Germany though, still gives aid for what was done to the Jews in WWII, and still, that's not really support but rather mandatory for what they did to em.

- N

 

Gee, who would ever have known you support Israel. Not like you bring it up in every single post.

 

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Thanks,
Jont

 

May be true in some cases, but not in most. On first day of Israel's invasion, a Brazilian family of four was killed by Israeli bomber WHILE SLEEPING IN THEIR BEDS. They and at least 800 others were not being used as "shields."
Your statement is basically false and Israel is guilty of war crimes. How is bombing a sewerage treatment plant or hospital "defensive"?

It is not! It is is a simple war crime.

 

Billy T were was their bed located in relationship to any Hezbullah rocket launching point, command and control center, anti aircraft site, supply or ammo dump, fighting position? and why didn't Hezbullah take into account the lives of these people before starting a operation that they admitted they lost control of, and got a response they weren't prepared for?

ps: the same goes for the Hospital and sewage treatment plant.

 

All I know is that it was in Beruit, but I think that could not have been a practicle launch site when Israel had not yet even entered southern Lebanon. I.e why launch from far away when They could and were launching from near the border.

 

Because that is were the launch site is, or maybe there was a comand and controal center located there,

http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/Beirutareaseffected.pdf

FOXNews.com - Israeli Warplanes Target Suspected Hezbollah Bunker ...
Israeli Warplanes Target Suspected Hezbollah Bunker in Beirut, ... them were) missile launching sites, control and command centers, missiles and so forth. ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204482,00.html

A map of the damaged areas of Beirut due to the bombings.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/Beirutareaseffected.pdf

 

But where would they be expected to launch from?

 

Photos that damn Hezbollah | Herald Sun
It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, ... Another depicts the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a ...
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,19960056-5006301,00.html

Israel
The stories, of how Hizbollah forces civilians to stay around rocket launch sites, are now widely known. Israeli intelligence agents in Lebanon are getting ...
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/israel/articles/20060731.aspx

The civilian casualties are awful but Israel is fighting for its ...
... to deploy school playgrounds as rocket launch sites; ... Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon six years ago. Hezbollah boasts that it has spent that ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ent.html?in_article_id=399003&in_page_id=1787

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

 

Hi Buffalo,

I dont agree with the tactic but this should have been anticipated.

 

Was it the intent to kill that Brazilian family? If so, why doesn't Israel simply carpet bomb the entire region? THAT would be a real war crime.

 

No. Not what Israel wanted - just what it did and to about 800 others who were totally innocent. If we assume that at least half were Shiite with large extended families and that 300 of the 1100 Israel killed were willing to die as martyrs* etc., I think it save to say that at least 600 new “willing martyrs” have been produced, as well as a great increase in both Hezbolla's popularity within Lebanon (They are going to gain in the government's next election.) and in the international support for Hezbollah. (Their yellow flags now fly from Morocco to Indonesia.) Perhaps even the house of Saudi, which was never popular, or Masharric will fall sooner as their oppressed people gain some measure of democracy.

The main "winner" is of course Iran. - Iran was already on a winning streak, as US eliminated their two main enemies. (Saddam fought them for 8 years, when he was one of US’s “good guys.”)
-------------------------------
*Israel's current policy is just increasing the danger to Israel. The next generation's war agains Islam will use at least biologic weapons and perhaps nuclear ones (by both sides), but a GWB would say: "We must stay the course."

 

So Hezbollah can attack cities with unguided rockets, kill civilians, and thats ok- but Isreal targets Hezbollah positions and accidentally kills civilans and thats a war crime?

You people need help.

 

No. You need to read my plan for REDUCING the number of Israelis killed. See other recent posts in "name your solution" thread, about tunneling defenses, getting an effective training responce from dogs and Palestinians, etc.

My plan / suggestion is:

Step 1: Apologize and pay compensation for the confiscation of Palestine home when Israel needed them to house the in flux of European Jews. I.e. admit that this injustice was done and not legal, despite the law later passed to retroactively make it OK to steal these homes and forbid the Palestinians from trying to reclaim them.

Step 2: Cease violation of the Lebanon cease-fire. Actions are allowed against immediate threats, but not against those that are distant in time and space. (Beca valley) You can justify the continued bombing of maternity wards by your logic as a future terrorist may be being born in one now!

Step 3: Install CIWS around all cities with in range of GAZA.

Step 4: Build an integrated radar screen, similar to the DEW line US installed across Canada about 35 years ago, so any incoming rocket will be tracked and if possible the launch point immediately subjected to counter battery fire as was done in WWII using multiple acoustic sensors instead of radar to locate launch site. ASAP increase the counter fire capacity with step 5, but immediately use the many mobile 155s US has supplied to:

Pound the hell out of the launch site for at least 5 minutes, but cease entirely shelling then and do not shell agan until another rocket is launched. I.e. stop sending several hundred rockets with no immediate provocation each day. (When Israel killed the family on the beach the Israeli spokes person stated that “100s of shells were routinely targeted into vacate lots" etc to prevent them from being used as Gaza rocket launch sites - heard that myself in the Isreali press conference the nezt day, so don’t deny. Six of that day's "100s" went into that same beach (or near it) and the hit locations of five were shown on the map displayed. -- surprizingly dumb move as it begs one to ask: "and where did #6 go?")

Step 5 Immediately develop automatic proximity shell artillery weapons that are integrated with the radar system* of step 4 to explode the Gaza rockets harmlessly near the top of their trajectory, where they are quite slow and easy to kill with old WWII APL system of 1944 even.
Note someone here said this was impossible- Well physic laws must have changed to make that statement correct as APL developed that system in 1944 in about one year to shoot down the KamiKazi planes DIVIVING down on navy ship at much higher speed than the Gaza rockets and these planes were manuvering to avoid the tracer bullets used back then to help the gun aimers. All that done before there were transistors or Nanotechnology. (APL designed a tube oscillator that could survive the gun’s acceleration. It was turned on by that acceleration and the frequency was slightly changed as it passed near to metal, setting it off. - no direct hit required.) With the advances in solid state and technology that more than 60 years has provided, Israel could, if it liked, make the shell whistle the Israeli National anthem on the way up and say (both in Hebrew and Arabic) “welcome to martyrdom” just be fore impact, if it wanted to. - “impossible” my ass! - not done as Israel needs to let a few Israelis get killed to “buy justification” for killing as “final solution” to the Palestine problem.

Step 6 constuct the border barrier on 1967 line and extending into / inside Israel 80 m as diagrammed below:

--------------------------------------------1967 border with 2 m tall wire fence, warning signs

Mine field area (with acoustic sensors to automatically locate any explosions, detect tunneling, etc.)

-----------------------------50m set back 2m fence to prevent dogs jumping into mined area.
Killer trained dogs area sub divided to keep at least two dogs every 100meters along it near cities.

-----------------------------80 from border 2m fence to keep kids (too young to read signs) out and dogs in the 30 m strip

Step 7 as mined and killer dog line is established, tear down the wall that is mainly claiming more of the mountain aquifer.

Note steps are all to be done ASAP, not in sequence.
----------------------------
*A "fire-till-confirmed-kill" system, Doppler radar notes rocket's speed change. - High resolution system (to see rocket explode) is not required. Shots every 3 to 5 seconds, not more rapidly. I.e. easy job - APL could do it in 6 months.