How Universe might end

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Michael 345, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    This is from my thunks about ENERGY

    ENERGY is a MEASUREMENT and a PROPERTY of stuff and systems

    The various types of energy can generally be exchanged between each other but not at a 100% efficiency. That (100% efficiency pathway) leads to perpetual motion stuff big no no
    The not present energy from / in energy conversion is present in the PROCESS itself an normally manifest as HEAT

    It is behind the speculation of The Heat Death of the Universe
    In The Heat Death of the Universe speculation every atom will be isolated from all other remaining atoms leading to no more Universe, no more stuff to MEASURE the POTENTIAL energy between two bits of stuff
    So what happened to the POTENTIAL energy?

    Hint the clue is in the word POTENTIAL. It never existed

    Now if this never existed energy was converted into another form of energy that energy could be converted back to POTENTIAL energy, starting the cycle again

    Are you thinking it sounds like the Universe IS a perpetual machine

    Not so. Remember The Heat Death of the Universe speculation? If this turns out to be correct and all atoms are flying apart from each other we have atoms at some ambient temperature and space temperature (heat radiation from the atoms)

    From this onwards is my speculation

    Space ambient temperature and atom temperature will continue to decrease until both are close to (but never at) ZERO

    Now we get to my weirdest idea

    Once space temperature gets to within a Planck's temperature (is there such a thing?) SPACE WILL VANISH

    The sheer nothingness will halt all remaining atoms which will begin to "fall"? into said nothingness

    This continues as gradually atoms pick up speed (POTENTIAL energy), start to clump together

    The process continues until the amount of stuff and energy collected is so dense and hot — ........
    If you have followed the bouncing ball this far can you see where I am headed?

    ...…— I am not going to call it a singularity (singularity implies something to small). I will go with my terminology - small ball PROTO Universe

    At some unknown critical point the number of atoms and resultant heat brings on Rapid Expansion (better description) of PROTO Universe

    Ladies and Gentlemen may I present to you our latest Universe
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Ssssssss Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    302
    Yes it's about \(1.4\times 10^{32}\mathrm{K}\).

    The universe has been below that temperature for a few years now and it's still here.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    The recent passing of John D Barrow was a sad loss. His professional evaluation of what are and mostly aren't viable cosmological model categories (assuming only a closed, finite, not infinite universe):
    https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.12926
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Thanks

    I was thinking more t lowest temperature ie zero


    In the Planck temperature scale, 0 is absolute zero, 1 is the Planck temperature, and every other temperature is a decimal of it. This maximum temperature is believed to be 1.416833(85) x 1032 Kelvin degrees, and at temperatures above it, the laws of physics just cease to exist.Jan 9, 2020

    https://www.zmescience.com › ...
    The minimum and maximum possible temperatures

    https://www-zmescience-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.zmescience.com/science/minimum-and-maximum-temperatures-043294/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA==#aoh=16232468335118&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.zmescience.com/science/minimum-and-maximum-temperatures-043294/


    .....highest possible temperature is the Planck temperature, which has the value 1.416785(71)×1032 kelvin,....

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_hot

    But thanks to you I did some checking to find Planck temperature is the hottest

    I have updated my notes but cannot update post

    Will sort out more later

    Thanks

    Edit PS currently space is sitting at 2.73 Kelvin


    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    This part of my post should read

    Once space temperature gets extremely close to zero SPACE WILL VANISH

    Due to my thinking Planck temperature would be the COLDEST

    Currently space is sitting at 2.73 Kelvin. The more it expands the colder it will become. The more stuff moves apart, less opportunity for stuff to bump together exchanging its POTENTIAL ENERGY (speed / motion) into heat

    Heat death of the Universe means NO heat

    ??? Would such a situation wipe out Quantum Foam leaving a TOTAL EMPTY VOID? No Quantum Foam? No fields?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    Okay.
    Heat is a type of energy. Specifically, heat is a transfer of energy between two objects or systems due to a temperature difference between them.
    Like every type of energy, potential energy is a conceptual, calculated quantity. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, any more than kinetic energy doesn't exist. The concept of potential energy follows from the definition of a conservative force. The thing that is conserved by a conservative force is total mechanical energy. A familiar example is the gravitational force.

    It's silly to claim that gravitational potential energy doesn't exist. If you want to claim that, then where does the kinetic energy come from when you drop an object?

    Oh, and by the way, every time you lift an object up you increase its gravitational potential energy. So, there's no problem with converting other forms of energy to potential energy.
    The heat death follows from the laws of thermodynamics, as long as the universe expands forever. There's not a lot of room left for speculation.
    Space doesn't have a temperature. Perhaps you're thinking of the microwave background radiation, but that's a radiation bath, not empty space.

    What happens when hot things are in contact with cold things is that they reach a thermal equilibrium after a while. You know that from experience. The universe as a whole isn't that different from your cooling cup of coffee.
    How can something fall into nothingness? What's nothingness?

    Speed is related to kinetic energy, not potential energy. Clumping together typically lowers potential energy.
    Congratulations. You've rediscovered the notion of a cyclic universe that goes through successive cycles of expansion and contraction. The only problem is that it's not looking like our universe is going to pull itself back together, ever. There's not enough matter in the universe for it to do that. Worse still, dark energy seems to be pushing everything apart.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    I understand HEAT is a form of energy. My point was HEAT is, generally, the energy OF the INTERACTION of the two objects AND which forms the INTERACTION

    Space is said to contain numerous fields, so although lacking physical material it still contains said fields

    My idea of NOTHINGNESS is because of the expansion of the Universe individual atoms will spread so far apart not even fields will exist over the region. A combination of the speed of the expanding atoms and smallness of field they carry with them makes it impossible for said fields to exist in the space they are leaving

    It is this NOTHINGNESS the atoms will fall into
    Yes I understand cyclic universe. This is my attempt to go back before the Big Bang (I prefer Rapid Expansion but will stay with convention) as in

    HOW DID THE SMALL (ATOM ?SIZED?) HOT DENSE STATE FORM

    Agree

    The expanding atoms forming a SPACE BEHIND THEM VOID OF FIELDS / QUANTUM FOAM however would not rely on the matter in the Universe PULLING itself back together but the mechanism would be the atoms FALLING into the TOTAL VACUUM VOID it being of the lower potential than the cloud of atoms balled around it

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,136
    Space is beginning less and endless distance, time, and living things. As long as science claims energy can’t be created or destroyed it would me rational to believe that eternity is a very real thing.
     

Share This Page