If Trump gets back in?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelasnave.1947, May 11, 2020.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    oh alice did the smoking caterpillar tell you that. look ms liddle no rational person thinks that about the WHO. in fact they think the exact opposite.
     
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  3. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Last Monday, the Associated Press revealed how the WHO lied to the world about China’s initial cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak. Those lies, which delayed other countries’ responses to the virus, caused hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. The AP gained access to recordings of internal WHO meetings in January. Those recordings capture WHO officials discussing how to keep China’s secretive conduct under wraps, even as WHO kept praising China publicly. That sugarcoating left the world unaware and unprepared for the pandemic about to hit.
    https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/08/funding-world-health-organization-a-waste-of-money/


    The most notorious example came in the form of a single tweet from the WHO account on January 14: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus.” That same day, the Wuhan Health Commission’s public bulletin declared, “We have not found proof for human-to-human transmission.” But by that point even the Chinese government was offering caveats not included in the WHO tweet. “The possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be excluded,” the bulletin said, “but the risk of sustained transmission is low.”

    This, we now know, was catastrophically untrue, and in the months since, the global pandemic has put much of the world under an unprecedented lockdown and killed more than 100,000 people.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ganization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/

    While ignorance and rationality are not necessarily mutually exclusive, one does have to the question the latter when the former seems willful.
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Your own ignorance and irrationality are obvious......
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

    All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus
    An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency
    more at link......
    Interesting to see how you lie, twist and worm your way out of this and justify the moron you call a President.

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  7. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! So you say I'm ignorant only to cite the same source I just did:
    The most notorious example came in the form of a single tweet from the WHO account on January 14: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus.” That same day, the Wuhan Health Commission’s public bulletin declared, “We have not found proof for human-to-human transmission.” But by that point even the Chinese government was offering caveats not included in the WHO tweet. “The possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be excluded,” the bulletin said, “but the risk of sustained transmission is low.”

    This, we now know, was catastrophically untrue, and in the months since, the global pandemic has put much of the world under an unprecedented lockdown and killed more than 100,000 people.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ganization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/
    That's rich...and stupid.
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    25,607
    No where as rich or as stupid as supporting some moron and the continuous lies he tells. No wonder the US is going down the gurgler.
     
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Think you have problems with Trump?

    How about

    This article is from the NT News issue of Friday, 10 Jul

    WEST’S WORLD ORDER

    KANYE West has revealed more details about his possible US presidential run.

    The billionaire rapper turned business tycoon told Forbes magazine he would be “taking the red hat off” – switching his support from Donald Trump and starting his own political party.

    West said if Mr Trump wasn’t running, he would have run as a Republican.

    “I will run as an independent if Trump is there,” he said. He revealed his political party would be called the Birthday Party, “because when we win, it’s everybody’s birthday” .

    West said he would run on an anti-abortion and anti-coronavirus vaccine policy platform.

    He named his top two advisers

    – wife Kim Kardashian and billionaire Tesla cars entrepreneur Elon Musk, whom West said would be “the head of our space program” .

    West, who conceded that he had never voted before, has missed the deadline to appear on the ballot in several states, but claimed he could be added because of the virus emergency.

    He said he was “going to speak with the White House, and with (Democratic candidate Joe) Biden” to make his bid happen.

    But he did not hold back on Mr Biden’s presidential bid, stating: “Obama’s special. Trump’s special . We say Kanye West is special . America needs special people that lead. Bill Clinton? Special. Joe Biden’s not special.”

    West has been an enthusiastic supporter of Mr Trump, even meeting him in the Oval Office during which he donned a red “Make America Great Again” baseball cap.

    “I wore the red hat as a protest to the segregation of votes in the black community,” West said. “Other than the fact that I like Trump hotels and the saxophones in the lobby.”

    West did not say specifically why he had stopped supporting Mr Trump. “It looks like one big mess to me,” he said.

    “I don’t like that I caught wind that he hid in the bunker (during violent unrest in Washington last month).”

    But he did add: “Trump is the closest president we’ve had in years to allowing God to still be part of the conversation.”

    West angrily denied that he would split the black vote if he ran. “That is a form of racism and white supremacy and white control , to say that all black people need to be Democrat and to assume that me running is me splitting the vote,” he said.

    West, who claimed he may have contracted coronavirus in February, said he was not in favour of vaccines for it.

    “It’s so many of our children that are being vaccinated and paralysed … So when they say the way we’re going to fix COVID is with a vaccine, I’m extremely cautious. That’s the mark of the beast.

    “They want to put chips inside of us, they want to do all kinds of things to make it where we can’t cross the gates of heaven.”

    West said that coronavirus was “all about God. We need to stop doing things that make God mad” .

    tiffany.bakker@news.com.au

    Copyright © 2020 News Pty Limited

    Your welcome

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  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
    extracts:
    All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus
    An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency
    When: Friday, February 7, and Wednesday, February 19
    The claim: The coronavirus would weaken “when we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”
    The truth: It’s too early to tell if the virus’s spread will be dampened by warmer conditions. Respiratory viruses can be seasonal, but the World Health Organization says that the new coronavirus “can be transmitted in ALL AREAS, including areas with hot and humid weather.”

    When: Thursday, February 27
    The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”
    The truth: Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, warned days later that he was concerned that “as the next week or two or three go by, we’re going to see a lot more community-related cases.

    When: Multiple times
    The claim: If the economic shutdown continues, deaths by suicide “definitely would be in far greater numbers than the numbers that we’re talking about” for COVID-19 deaths.
    The truth: The White House now estimates that anywhere from 100,000 to 240,000 Americans could die from COVID-19. Other estimates have placed the number at 1.1 million to 1.2 million. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, suicide is one of the leading causes of death in the United States. But the number of people who died by suicide in 2017, for example, was roughly 47,000, nowhere near the COVID-19 estimates. Estimates of the mental-health toll of the Great Recession are mixed. A 2014 study tied more than 10,000 suicides in Europe and North America to the financial crisis. But a larger analysis in 2017 found that while the rate of suicide was increasing in the United States, the increase could not be directly tied to the recession and was attributable to broader socioeconomic conditions predating the downturn.


    Blaming the Obama Administration

    When: Wednesday, March 4
    The claim: The Trump White House rolled back Food and Drug Administration regulations that limited the kind of laboratory tests states could run and how they could conduct them. “The Obama administration made a decision on testing that turned out to be very detrimental to what we’re doing,” Trump said.
    The truth: The Obama administration drafted, but never implemented, changes to rules that regulate laboratory tests run by states. Trump’s policy change relaxed an FDA requirement that would have forced private labs to wait for FDA authorization to conduct their own, non-CDC-approved coronavirus tests.


    When: Friday, March 13
    The claim: The Obama White House’s response to the H1N1 pandemic was “a full scale disaster, with thousands dying, and nothing meaningful done to fix the testing problem, until now.”
    The truth: Barack Obama declared a public-health emergency two weeks after the first U.S. cases of H1N1 were reported, in California. (Trump declared a national emergency more than seven weeks after the first domestic COVID-19 case was reported, in Washington State.) While testing is a problem now, it wasn’t back in 2009. The challenge then was vaccine development: Production was delayed and the vaccine wasn’t distributed until the outbreak was already waning.

    When: Multiple times
    The claim: The Trump White House “inherited” a “broken,” “bad,” and “obsolete” test for the coronavirus.
    The truth: The novel coronavirus did not exist in humans during the Obama administration.
    Public-health experts agree that, because of that fact, the CDC could not have produced a test, and thus a new test had to be developed this year.


    When: Multiple times
    The claim: The Obama administration left Trump “bare” and “empty” shelves of medical supplies in the national strategic stockpile.
    The truth: The 2009 H1N1 outbreak did deplete the N95 mask supply and was never replenished, but the Obama administration did not leave the stockpile empty of other materials.
    While the stockpile has never been funded at the levels some experts have requested, its former director said in 2019, before the coronavirus pandemic, that it was well-equipped. (The outbreak has since eaten away at its reserves.)

    Trump tweeted: “Compare that to the Obama/Sleepy Joe disaster known as H1N1 Swine Flu. Poor marks ... didn’t have a clue!”
    The truth: It is misleading to compare COVID-19 to H1N1 and to call the Obama administration’s response a disaster, as my colleague Peter Nicholas has reported. In 2009, the CDC quickly flagged the new flu strain in California and began releasing antiflu drugs from the national stockpile two weeks later. A vaccine was available in six months.

    much more of the lies, stupidity at link....

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    And the lies by this moron of a President continues, as does the lies from his redneck gun toting radical supporters.

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  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And further more ...

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    in fact I go as far as to say ...

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    AFCSOAB!!
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    So, the sources are an editorial by a Republican whose history includes being one of the sources of the right-wing "death panel" panic about the ACA, and an article that tells us—

    In any case, it's not the WHO's fault if China obscured the problem early on, says Charles Clift, a senior consulting fellow at Chatham House's Center for Universal Health who worked at the WHO from 2004 to 2006. "We'd like more transparency, that's true, but if countries find reasons to not be transparent, it's difficult to know what we can do about it." The organization's major structural weakness is that it relies on information from its member countries—and the WHO team that visited China in February to evaluate the response did so jointly with China's representatives. The resulting report did not mention delays in information-sharing, but did say that "China's bold approach to contain the rapid spread of this new respiratory pathogen has changed the course of a rapidly escalating and deadly epidemic." The mission came back telling reporters they were largely satisfied with the information China was giving them.

    If this is something short of complicity in a Chinese cover-up—which is what former National Security Adviser John Bolton has alleged of the WHO—it does point to a big vulnerability: The group's membership includes transparent democracies and authoritarian states and systems in between, which means the information the WHO puts out is only as good as what it's getting from the likes of Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin. North Korea, for instance, has reported absolutely no coronavirus cases, and the WHO isn't really in a position to say otherwise.

    The structure also gives WHO leaders like Tedros an incentive not to anger member states, and this is as true of China as it is of countries with significantly less financial clout.


    (Gilsinan↱)

    —a tale that does not sound especially unusual. Indeed, one of the harder answers to discern in the Atlantic article is the obvious question: What should WHO actually have done?

    The structure of the article makes a certain point: It opens with a Chinese scientist in the U.S. doubting WHO from the perspective of a dissident, tacitly agrees with his critique, turns to the Trump administration in a mitigating tone, recalls Covid history according to the critique, returns to the dissident scientist, piles on the American complaints, perfunctorily glosses the WHO response, and in the thirteenth 'graf gets around to someone making what seems an obvious point; the last paragraphs, sixteen and seventeen, note WHO's diplomacy, complain that WHO hasn't been fast enough to criticize China, and return to the scientist calling WHO's behavior unforgivable.

    There is plenty to consider about how the World Health Organization operates and gets along with member nations, but trying to blame China for the Trump administration's infliction is actually pretty sick. The Atlantic article isn't horrible, but neither is it any wise investment for your attitude problem.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Gilsinan, Kathy. "How China Deceived the WHO". The Atlantic. 12 April 2020. TheAtlantic.com. 9 July 2020. https://bit.ly/3frFdkg
     
  14. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    All genetic fallacies. Speaking of sources:

    "who worked at the WHO". And leftists seem to love John Bolton now that he has a book bashing Trump, just like others the left has hated then loved solely because they seem to validate their biased hatreds.

    Commies gotta stick up for commies, I guess.

    That article says the WHO dropped the ball, even when China was "offering caveats".
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Dropping the ball is a different question than the accusation↗ of having "misled the whole world for months".

    Can you not discern the difference?
     
  16. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    When you discount one source with genetic fallacies, the point can get lost. Perhaps this is a source more to your liking:
    It is not just Trump – even some of the WHO’s supporters in government, academia and NGOs argue that since the start of the coronavirus crisis, it has caved in to nationalist bullies, praised draconian quarantine measures and failed to protect the liberal international order of which it is a linchpin. “You’ve got a situation where it looks like WHO doesn’t want to exercise its authority,” said David Fidler, a fellow in global health at the Council on Foreign Relations and a regular consultant to the WHO.
    ...
    If the WHO thought it could sacrifice a bit of its credibility – overlooking China’s obvious blunders in December and January in exchange for its compliance in February – and move on, it was mistaken. The argument over China’s influence has been raging for weeks, not least since the government of Taiwan claimed that the WHO had ignored its own early reports of human-to-human transmission of coronavirus as part of a larger history of appeasing China – which has blocked Taiwan from joining the WHO (and the UN) for decades.
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic
    So with the aforementioned Atlantic article saying the WHO dropped the ball, and evidence that the WHO was beholden to China for months leading up to that, I stand by what I said.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Whether WHO dropped the ball is a separate issue and debatable anyway...The fool you call a President, has never ever had the ball to drop!
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    What an interesting quote. Here's part of what your ellipsis omits:

    "You've got a situation where it looks like WHO doesn't want to exercise its authority," said David Fidler, a fellow in global health at the Council on Foreign Relations and a regular consultant to the WHO.

    Meanwhile, the WHO is desperately struggling to get its 194 member states to actually follow its guidance. The WHO's leaders are "very frustrated," said John MacKenzie, a virologist and adviser on the WHO's emergency committee. "The messages come out loud and clear, and some disregard the warnings. The US largely did, the UK largely did."

    On 11 March, the day Tedros declared the coronavirus a pandemic, he spoke darkly of "alarming levels of inaction" from many countries. Pressed by journalists to name them, Mike Ryan, the usually no-nonsense Irish trauma doctor who heads the WHO's Covid-19 response, demurred. "You know who you are," he said, adding that "we don't criticise our member states in public".

    There is a simple reason for this. For all the responsibility vested in the WHO, it has little power. Unlike international bodies such as the World Trade Organization, the WHO, which is a specialised body of the UN, has no ability to bind or sanction its members. Its annual operating budget, about $2bn in 2019, is smaller than that of many university hospitals, and split among a dizzying array of public health and research projects. The WHO is less like a military general or elected leader with a strong mandate, and more like an underpaid sports coach wary of "losing the dressing room", who can only get their way by charming, grovelling, cajoling and occasionally pleading with the players to do as they say.


    (Buryani↱)

    Did you notice how what came right after you cut out tells a different story? So does what comes right before you cut back in—

    "I don't think Tedros did anything previous director generals would not have done," said Anthony Costello, the director of the UCL Institute for Global Health. "He needed a good relationship with China in order to get in." Even Lawrence Gostin, who has been a prominent critic of Tedros in the past, told me that "his high praise for China is understandable. He is seeking to coax China into cooperation." He went on to note, though, that this strategy "does risk the credibility of WHO as an objective agency."

    If the WHO thought it could sacrifice a bit of its credibility—overlooking China's obvious blunders in December and January in exchange for its compliance in February—and move on, it was mistaken. The argument over China's influence has been raging for weeks, not least since the government of Taiwan claimed that the WHO had ignored its own early reports of human-to-human transmission of coronavirus as part of a larger history of appeasing China—which has blocked Taiwan from joining the WHO (and the UN) for decades.

    Now that Trump, scrambling for an answer to explain why the US now has more cases of coronavirus than any other nation, has alighted upon the WHO and China as his preferred scapegoats, these questions will not go away. "I don't think we will see the US government cut off funding," said Fidler. "But what's happened with this pandemic—with the WHO caught between the US/China rivalry—is not a good omen for the WHO going forward."

    —and right after you left off.

    Also, did you miss the subheadline on that one, "Attacked by Trump and ignored by many of its most powerful members ..."?

    Again, the story does not sound all that unusual. Even Fidler's point in the early quote comes back to what I said, before, that one of the harder answers to discern is what WHO should actually have done, and regardless of his expectations of WHO's authority, even he seems, per the later, to be viewing this in the context of unfortunately mundane geopolitics.

    By contrast—

    —your sensationalizing distortions require extraordinary overstatement.

    Then again, you're you, so it's a coin toss on whether you're putting effort into misrepresentation, or really can't figure it out.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Buryani, Stephen. "The WHO v coronavirus: why it can't handle the pandemic". The Guardian. 10 April 2020. TheGuardian.com. 9 July 2020. https://bit.ly/3fi68ir
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    so because you don't understand how science works you think the WHO lied. please don't project your own dishonesty and ignorance on others. there were 43 cases world wide on january 14th. quite frankly the statement was accurate at the time. jesus your grasping at straws and making an ass of your self.



    So again Ms. Liddle perhaps don't go to the smoking caterpillar for your news.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    18,319
    Fun tidbit -

    In Arizona, the governor's office (a Republican governor, notably) just released a set of triage instructions to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic. It includes this:

    "If two or more patients require a single resource, additional factors may be considered as priorities, including:
    1. Pediatric patients . . .
    2. First responders or frontline healthcare workers. . .
    3. Single caretakers for minors or dependent adults . . .
    4. Pregnant patients . . .
    5. Opportunity to experience life stages. . . ."

    So today, over 10 years after Sarah Palin made the (false) claim that Obama would have death panels to decide who lives and who dies, Arizona has . . . a death panel who decides who lives and who dies. Created under a GOP governor. And they will base it on things like who the government decides is the most important, and on who they think has had more valuable "life stages" ahead of them. (Surely someone about to be re-elected to a government position has a valuable life stage coming up and MUST be saved!)
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I heard chatter↱ about that, late last month, but missed the headlines last week when the crisis standard activated.
     
  22. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    That doesn't refute that they lied; it's only trying to justify why they lied...to encourage cooperation and funding.

    Again, that only tries to justify the lying, not refute it. They toed the Chinese party line in hopes of "a good relationship" and "seeking to coax China into cooperation". At the expense of accurate info and warning to the international community.

    Yes, the WHO was ignored by many countries because it changed it's story several times, lending to a lack of confidence, and was eventually caught lying for China.

    The WHO should have told the international community the facts, as we now know they knew them, without dismissing credible info from Taiwan, unduly praising China's response, and hobbling the early response of every other country on the planet.

    Most critically, Beijing succeeded from the start in steering the World Health Organization (WHO), which both receives funding from China and is dependent on the regime of the Communist Party on many levels. Its international experts didn’t get access to the country until Director-General Tedros Adhanom visited President Xi Jinping at the end of January. Before then, WHO was uncritically repeating information from the Chinese authorities, ignoring warnings from Taiwanese doctors—unrepresented in WHO, which is a United Nations body—and reluctant to declare a “public health emergency of international concern,” denying after a meeting Jan. 22 that there was any need to do so.

    After the Beijing visit, though, WHO said in a statement that it appreciated “especially the commitment from top leadership, and the transparency they have demonstrated.” Only after the meeting did it declared, on Jan. 30, a public health emergency of international concern. And after China reported only a few new cases each day, WHO declared the coronavirus a pandemic March 11—even though it had spread globally weeks before.

    WHO was keen to broadcast Beijing’s message. “In the face of a previously unknown virus, China has rolled out perhaps the most ambitious, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history,” WHO experts said in their February report on the mission to China. The country had gained “invaluable time for the response” in an “all-of-government and all-of society approach” that has averted or delayed hundreds of thousands of cases, protecting the global community and “creating a stronger first line of defense against international spread.”
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/02/china-coronavirus-who-health-soft-power/


    No, because we have evidence that the WHO knew better when it was lying, with WHO officials admitting that they were beholden to China, for cooperation and funding. You're so vested in blaming things on Trump that you ignore valid info and any inherent reason of your own.


    Big difference between emergency measures to a natural disaster and healthcare rationing as a way of life. Triage has always been a part of emergency medicine. I know, reason goes right out the window when you're intent on smearing the opposition party.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    douwd20 likes this.

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