If Trump gets back in?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelasnave.1947, May 11, 2020.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I think it will have a pretty big effect. We're a consumer economy, and much of the consumption happens at the lower income levels (because they make up a larger percentage of the total consumer base.)

    So Jill the Bartender is out of work. Then they reopen the bars and Jill goes back to work - but work doesn't pick up quickly and she gets laid off. So she can't buy her expensive coffee, so Dave the Barista gets laid off. Which means he's not going to Jill's bar every Friday with his friends like he used to. Multiply by 60 million or so.

    "But there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the economy!" people say. True - but effects like the one above have a large effect on a consumer economy.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Not eliminate the pandemic task force.

    When alerted to the possibility of a pandemic, start immediately working on ramping up testing, emergency response and PPE supplies. Instead of going golfing.

    "Herding cats" is basically what any president does. Some are better than others. Lincoln, for example, got a lot of his political enemies for his cabinet - and herded those screeching-and-clawing cats into one of the better cabinets the US has seen.
    Of course. And there are lots of people who will do the right thing no matter what. But in between there is a vast number of people, organizations, governments, companies and research orgs that will listen to a good leader.
    He isn't to blame for the virus. He is to blame for his botched response to it.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    You could be right but I think this is one that we'll bounce back from pretty quickly. There will be some people that it affects more than others of course.

    The airlines will be affected, as will events in stadiums and crowded bars and even gyms. Most businesses will find ways to adjust IMO.
     
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  7. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
    Here is what actually happened:
    https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/mar/20/how-donald-trump-responded-coronavirus-pandemic/
    and the Trump version https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/...s-decisive-actions-to-combat-the-coronavirus/

    Some of us would do it better than others.
    Some heads of state did it and are doing it better than others.
    None have done it as badly as Donald Trump, and neither would any of us.
    Maybe so, but shrugging and refusing to take any responsibility for anything is not emblematic of a world leader.
    In this instance, by egging them on.
    I'm not blaming him for the situation; I'm blaming him for his response to it*
    ("How do my numbers look?")
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  8. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    In which case, all the people of all the world have always followed the craziest among them, which means we've all always been crazy. And that makes it normal.
    And that makes any estimation of sanity irrelevant.
    And if you can watch that man talk for five minutes, with or without a mute button, and not have the little *dementia!!* flags light up in your head, this entire conversation is irrelevant.
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Why has this been kept a secret...the world should get to know about this.

    Don't be afraid to say it. You think I was the man for the job.

    I thought that was what being a political leader was all about.


    Then everything is ok then.

    Let us hope he will do better next time.


    Great response I hope you feel better. I watch each day the figures for USA in particular and it saddens me deeply. I hope things improve real soon for the US.

    Thanks for a great reply and take care of yourself.

    Alex
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    That is the unfortunate reality crazy is indeed normal. You know in the real world I only know a couple of people who I would say are not crazy...but then I only know a couple of people cause I have eliminated...as in don't see these days...all the crazy ones...if they are interested in religion, politics or sport I avoid them..or if they have pets or kids..or a car..otherwise I am open minded.

    I watched some of his TV show once where he fired people ...now what was the name of that show? I can't remember why I would be watching a tv show however ..maybe I was visiting someone cause I rarely watched TV cause back then I did not own a tv come to think of it... but the show did not impress me with folk blaming each other for whatever went wrong...funny he is now Sortta on the other side of the table... Will he try and shift blame like those poor kids on his show..is that ironic....I know ..the Apprentice..that was it ... see no forgetfulness here...and that's it I had got this girls keys out of her car after she locked them in and she said come back for a coffee, ...it was a Toyota..now what was her name..but she loved it..the show..she wanted me to come by next week for another coffee but really I am a tea drinker and she sat too close..I don't like being close.

    Numbers ? What numbers? Hmmm maybe that's the problem ...too many numbers...I knew a cute little number once... but that memory disappears when I think..she must be 67 now.

    Alex
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If Trump gets back in he will continue his current efforts to create a worse future for most Americans, just as every Republican administration (both State and Federal) has for decades now.

    Whether or not he touches off a domestic war of some kind depends on luck. He has been encouraging, abetting, targeting, and increasing, fascist violence since 2016 at the latest (as a private citizen: all his life, like his father); eventually, if he screws up, a violent opposition might form (as happened in many Caribbean, South, and Central, American countries when taken over by fascist demagogues). But there's no certainty of that - it would be very difficult to organize in America for starters (note that the US internet media will not support the organization necessary, and the US Constitution's Bill of Rights has been eroded and damaged considerably at the same time as the Federal courts have been packed by Trump's political faction (2/3 of the US population lives within 100 miles of the US border, which means that they officially and by Federal government rule no longer enjoy protection against unreasonable search and seizure, are no longer guaranteed the protection of habeas corpus, are not entitled to legal representation, the right to see and confront witnesses, or trial by a jury of their peers, etc).
    - - - -
    Under modern Republican administrations job loss and wage stagnation have caused the stock market to rise.
    (Most stocks in the US market are owned by wealthy people, and the proportion has been increasing of late - high unemployment and low wages benefits them in the short run).
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Not a chance. He does what he does for reasons - they haven't changed.
    Trump's poll ratings and his TV audience share, mostly, but sometimes including his electoral college majority in 2016 or the profits from one of his side hustles.
    If you recall, Trump often responds to questioning, criticism, or blame, by citing his popularity as documented by his poll numbers.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    To be frank I don't follow your politics...I presume you have a democracy and honestly with your mass shootings, drug problems, illegal and legal, your fixation on big cars, inability to have decent health care, collecting crap and obsession with religion and warfare a president like Trump is not inconsistent with the expectations of those outside your country however I do hope what I expect is a reasonably sane minority can demonstrate you are much better than the image projected world wide.
    Alex
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    do not put too much faith in the media
    there is a noticeable lack f objectivity there.
     
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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't help: the ones who need to hear that are immersed in the media to the point they cannot see it - fish in water.
    I've heard them describe "the media" as "liberal", even "left", for example - the Tribe, blinking in the sunlight, trying to figure out why everybody's recoiling.
     
    river likes this.
  16. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,699
    It was called The Apprentice, which he produced for the express purpose of turning him into a screen celebrity like Ronald Reagan, and showing him as a super business mogul after his unsuccessful Reform party bid in 2000, which followed several huge financial frauds, failures and fuck-ups.
    No, it was all about Boss Trump assigning ridiculous, humiliating and impossible tasks to hapless minions, then firing them for fraud, failure and fuck-ups. Indeed, a model for his presidency.
    But the demented style of speech was already evident in his interviews back in the 1980's.
     
    river likes this.
  17. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    That's COVID 19 disrupting the markets.

    ...I'd immediately go talk with your bank if you're in distress. They should be fully aware of hardships going on.
     
    river likes this.
  18. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    No, the oil producers were in deep shit long before that. China's been pissed with us for a while and that was meant to be the Big Market, and then Russia and Saudi Arabia trade war depressed oil prices for everybody (the US, too). The pandemic is just the last nail in a coffin that's been under construction for years.
    Are people going to start flying off to expensive vacations, buying SUV's and camper-vans, taking cruises on ocean-going death-traps? Not bloody likely! A whole lot of oil-guzzling sectors, including quite a lot of shipping and manufacturing, because shrunken economies have no room for luxury crap, are never going to recover.
    The fossil fuel industry, particularly dirty oil, is never going to recover. And that's fine. Alberta and North Dakota need to find more wholesome ways to live - maybe grow food and brew beer.
    Why would you talk to my bank? More to the point, why should my bank listen to you?
    Oh, I think the banks were aware sooner than the governments. At least, I assume that's why Bitcoin spiked in - was it early March? - jillionnaires scrabbling for mattresses to hide their ill-gotten gains before regulations could be enacted.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    There's an ellipsis prefix.
     
  20. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I have voted for the winner ever since I started voting.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Given how he and his administration has responded thus far, I would say it is fair..

    Not lie about what was happening would be a pretty good start.

    Prepare early would be another good start.

    Unfortunately he dismantled the department that was designed to deal with any future pandemic, he cut funding to departments that were in place to help identify and address and deal with any risk from diseases or pandemics..

    And then he did the worst thing of all. He failed to take it seriously, failed to prepare and then tried to blame everyone else for his failures.

    Then when the pandemic was taking hold in the US, pretty sure most normal people would not see it as an exercise to drum up political support and turn the entire thing into 'politics', from favouring states that were led by people from his party, not to mention he withheld aid to states who desperately needed the equipment because he felt that their Governors had to bend the knee, not to mention again thrusting his corpse like son-in-law into the limelight to deal with the pandemic - who then appeared on TV to tell Governors that the PPE's the federal government had acquired for the pandemic and their stockpile was apparently not for the country to use but apparently for Trump and his administration to use as they saw fit.. And don't even get me started on his plugging a drug - which his family company had shares in the company that made the drug.. Culminating in that now infamous moment where he went on national TV for the daily update and rambled about using disinfectant and sunlight to cure the virus inside people's bodies..

    The list could go on and on as to how anyone with half a brain would do better than what Trump and his administration did.

    The problem lies in the fact that those people, his voters, have a President that is encouraging them to go out and protest.

    Certainly and a President, any leader really, has to have the ability to put politics aside and stop catering and giving in to the dumbest in society..

    Oh, he isn't to blame for the virus.

    He is, however, to blame for how badly his country has handled the pandemic within its own borders.
     
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  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Well, let's start with you: Would you track where people who happen to disagree with you are buying medical supplies, and then seize the shipments in order to endanger medical personnel and the general population by disrupting their ability to respond to crisis, in order to take personal satisfaction?

    Straightforward question, Alex. The answer, here, is yes or no.
     
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  23. LazarusLong Registered Member

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    6
    I would seriously consider moving. Canada would be the easiest. New Zealand is really appealing, but it would mean leaving our aging parents behind, so that is not likely.
     

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