Infinite Potential

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Write4U, Mar 22, 2023.

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  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I believe this may also be of interest.
    The theory of everything: The universe is 'like a COMPUTER underlined by information'

    SCIENTISTS are uncovering what underlies the universe and what makes up spacetime.

    By SEAN MARTIN, 10:01, Sun, Feb 12, 2017 | UPDATED: 15:28, Sun, Feb 12, 2017
    .........
    This would mean that the universe is basically written in binary – zeros and ones.

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    more..... https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/765843/universe-a-COMPUTER-binary-theory-of-everything

    That "information processing" system has been dubbed "mathematical" by humans.

    This reduction to the absolute simplest interactive dynamic of "quanta" (mathematical value) makes a lot of sense.

    The universe is not based on human computers. Human computers are based on universal "quantum mechanics".
    The universe is not based on human mathematics. Human mathematics is based on universal "quantum values".
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
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  3. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    How would you characterize the information in an interference pattern?

    Do you need a minimal number of quantum particles so a pattern emerges? It seems to be the case.
    And although we call them dots on a screen, are they actually physically more complex at an atomic scale, or what?
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I believe the answer is in the question. What may have been random values flating around, an interference pattern guides these random values into a very specific pattern.

    The double slit experiment provides the proof.

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    AFAIK, patterns emerge in several configurations, depending on the number of values and how they connect.
    I would vote for the triangle as the simplest possible pattern set (fractals)

    Altitude of a Triangle

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    [/quote]The three altitudes of a triangle (or its extensions) intersect at a point called orthocenter. [/quote]
    https://www.mathematicalway.com/mathematics/geometry/points-lines-circles-associated-triangle/
     

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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Triangle fractals can make the most incredible patterns :

    The Sierpinski Triangle

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    named after the Polish mathematician Wacław Sierpiński
    from

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    to this

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    https://mathigon.org/course/fractals/sierpinski

    Play the video.

    From what I can see, the triangle may well have near infinite potential for patterned expressions in nature.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    *sigh* Okay, I'll break it down for you.
    Observe the words "single" and "universal" in that question.

    Single objects or functions cannot have "a fundamental universal property", because single things are single things, not universal things. Ergo, the question makes no sense.

    Can this problem be fixed?

    Maybe we can just ignore the first half of the question for now. The assertion in the second half is that "quantum" is a "fundamental universal property". I read this as saying that the "universe" has a property called "quantum" (and this is "fundamental" to it). But (a) what is this property called "quantum", and (b) in what sense can the universe be said to have it, and (c) in what sense can be it said to be "fundamental"? I don't know the answers to these questions.

    Maybe, alternatively, we can ignore the second half of the question and concentrate on the first half instead. "Can you cite a single physical object or function that does not have quantum?" I read this as an assertion that all physical objects have "quantum" as a property, and so do all functions. But (a) what is a "function"? (b) what is the property "quantum"? (c) What does it mean for a function to have the property "quantum"? (d) What does it mean for physical objects to have the property "quantum"? I can hazard a guess at some of the answers to these, but I'm really not sure.

    Maybe I can just ignore the actual wording you used completely and try to guess what you might have meant to ask. Recall that the assertion you made was "quantum is applicable to everything"; this is what is in dispute.

    If I wanted to calculate exactly where a tennis ball will land when thrown with a particular velocity in a particular direction from a particular height, would I need to consider the "fundamental universal property" called "quantum", as it relates to that tennis ball? I don't think so. Could this, then, possibly be an example of quantum not applying to "everything"?

    When you enjoy eating your morning breakfast cereal, are you applying the quantum? Could it be that quantum doesn't apply to your breakfast cereal?

    "But what about all the atoms in the wheaties and the milk!" you cry. "You can't have milk without the quantum atoms! The quantum applies to everything, don'tcha know?"

    What about the function of you eating the wheaties? Does the quantum apply to that? Are you thinking about the quantum every time you chow down? Or could it be that the quantum isn't very important when the function under consideration is eating your wheaties?

    Look, on second thoughts, I think you've won me over. The quantum is universal and we can't possible continue to live our lives without it being central to every single object and function.

    So what?

    Does this mean everything Tegmark and Bohm every wrote is proved correct? Does this mean we all have to accept that the universe is nothing but mathematics? Should we set up the altars to the microtubules now that we know about the everythingness of the quantum?

    What's this thread about, again?
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    And here I was thinking that "infinite potential" was just the title of a movie. I vaguely recall somebody telling me that's all it was.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Introduction

    At the beginning of the 18th century, physicists like Isaac Newton

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    Sir Isaac Newton (1642 – 1726) was an English physicist, mathematician, and astronomer, and one of the most influential scientists of all time. He was a professor at Cambridge University, and president of the Royal Society in London.
    watch videos.

    https://mathigon.org/course/chaos/introduction
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    Unless the question asks if all things in the universe have a single common "universal" denominator.
    I believe there are several equations about that.
    And how convenient of you the forget the qualifier "near" in your quote of my posit.
    Can you present an example of creating more complex variations on a very simple (basic) theme?
    What are you talking about?
    I am discussing quantum potentials, aren't you?
    It's about the concept of "Infinite Potential" and I am the only one sticking to the OP question.

    The term "infinite potential" was being challenged and I defended the notion that the Universe might well possess infinite potential for dynamic expression of dense complex patterns in physical reality.

    If anyone mentions the size of infinity, I suggest they underestimate the size (informational value) of universal mathematical potentials (potential mathematics?).
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:
    Equations that apply equally to your breakfast wheaties and to the big bang? If you say so.
    er... Bach?
    I'm not really sure any more.

    Looking back at the opening post of the thread, I see that, in fact, it was pretty much just an advertisement.

    There was no actual suggested topic for discussion.

    Maybe that's why this conversation is rambling all over the place. You seem to be settling into your default random blogging behaviour, for the most part.
    Not at all. Not yet, anyway.

    What are quantum potentials? Where have you discussed them? Not in this thread, as far as I'm aware.
    Was there a question? What was the question?
    Ah yes. The word salad.

    Shall we go around one more time, then?
    What's a universal mathematical potential when it's at home?
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    Frankly, I could not care less about the term "infinite potential". I didn't invent it and to me it is meaningless, other than Bohm's "Quantum Potential" that apparently is so large that it might as well be infinite as far as human science is concerned.
    Should we change the thread title to from "infinite potential" to "Bohm's quantum potential"? If the term "infinite potential" is, as you say, meaningless and all. Or would that fail to advertise the movie adequately?

    What's Bohm's quantum potential? Can you summarise in your own words?
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What's all this stuff about fractals and the like, if the topic is supposed to be about Bohm's quantum potential? Isn't all the fractal stuff an off-topic irrelevancy?

    Why do we need a biography of Isaac Newton in this thread?

    Is the universe being like a computer somehow relevant to the thread? How so?

    Why do we need a tutorial on altitudes of a triangle in this thread?
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    And I am attempting to get answers to some of these questions, by presenting analyses of various prominent scientists
    Oh, I like Bach, perhaps a little too Baroque for my Romantic taste. Chopin was the most romantic musical giant of his day.
    And yes, the wave function seems to have near-infinite potential expressions.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    Clearly you have not been paying attention,
    I cited CDT (Causal Dynamical Triangulation) as a potential universal theory. But I'll quote the pertinent part.
    more ....... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

    p.s. You cannot claim "irrelevance" in context of potential fractal aspects to the unfolding of spacetime itself.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Since I've started, I guess I might as well finish.

    Readers might recall Write4U jumping up and down about his precious thread on "infinite potential" being taken off-topic by other posters.

    But it's interesting to compare the topics raised in Write4U's own posts to this thread. Here's a list:
    • Advertisement for a biopic about David Bohm (post #1)
    • Question about a particle in a box having "infinite potential", despite Write4U saying the term "infinite potential" is meaningless to him (post #2).
    • Potential energy vs internuclear distances between two atoms. (#3)
    • Quantum field theory (#7)
    • Energy of a trillion atomic bombs in every cubic metre of space (#8)
    • Particle vibrations in a transverse wave (#10)
    • Classification of physical theories (#12)
    • The problem of time (#12)
    • Longtime ravers give first-timer tips (#14)
    • The enfolded order of the number 4/3 (#16)
    • Biography of Louis de Broglie (#18)
    • Bohm's pilot wave theory (#18,19)
    • Emergent phenomena (#21)
    • Bohm's "enfolded orders" (#22)
    • Dictionary definitions of the words "potential" and "physics" (#28)
    • Quantum potential (#36) Possibly the only ostensibly on-topic post so far...
    • An interview with Roger Penrose (extract from Bohm biopic) (#41)
    • What quantum physics reveals about how we should live, by Lothar Schafer (#44)
    • "dynamic systems theory" definition (#51)
    • dictionary definitions of "potential" (#53) and the philosophy of labelling.
    • dictionary definition of "pluripotential" (#54)
    • complaint about thread hijacking (!) (#59)
    • democracy vs plutocracy (#61) and the planet Pluto
    • definition of "atomic weight" (#62)
    • definition of "water potential" (#66)
    • David Bohm, implicate order and holomovement (#67)
    • biography of Bohm (#81)
    • Bohm's "Quantum Mechanics and Enlightenment" (#86)
    • Can we gauge quantum time of flight? (#95)
    • Elite cabals and other conspiracies (#98)
    • Primer on "dynamics" (#101)
    • Stretched springs store elastic potential energy (#102)
    • Dictionary definition of "dynamical system" (#106)
    • Differential equations (#109)
    • Gravitational potential (#110)
    • Dictionary definition of "potential energy" (#110)
    • Quantum is applicable to everything (#112)
    • Quantum physics study suggests objective reality doesn't exist (#117)
    • Quantum loop gravity: does spacetime come in tiny chunks (#119)
    • Primer on quantum loop gravity (#120)
    • Dictionary definition of "causal dynamical triangulation" (#120)
    • The theory of everything: The universe is like a computer underlined by information (#121)
    • Altitudes of a triangle (#123)
    • The Sierpinski triangle (#124)
    • Video on fractals (#124)
    • Biography of Newton (#127)
    • Dictionary definition of "causal dynamical triangulation" (again) (#133)
    What a mess.

    What's clear is that Write4U never had a clear idea of what this thread would be about.

    It's really just an excuse for him to blog random thoughts, full of liberal cut-and-pastes from dictionaries and cut-and-pastes from youtube videos that Write4U wants to promote.

    There are signs of an inability to maintain focus on one thought. Instead, we see attention constantly wandering from one thing to the next, with nothing ever being properly understood. It's more like collecting random postcards on a frantic round-the-world trip, never stopping long enough to learn anything real about the countries you're visiting.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    Because I am trying to demonstrate my perspectives to other readers of this thread. I know you don't need to be told about Isaac Newton. That's the stuff of a novice. But apparently you do not recognize the relationship and common denominators in all those "random" universal conditions cited in those supporting paragraphs.
    So, I share these references to show a more or less objective understanding of the mathematical "Laws of Nature", which we continue to discover and apply in practice. How you can object to the introduction of "examples" in physics.

    OTOH, you seek to completely fracture science into nice little niches and specializations where comprehensive scientific communication begins to suffer.

    And which seem to have no limits except for mathematical permissions and restrictions.

    Bohm's perspective was solid, starting with:
    Pure Potential, the chaotic Implicate Order with a promise of that which is to become reality (determinism).

    Implicate and explicate order
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicate_and_explicate_order
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Everything in this thread is irrelevant, apart from one or two posts, if we're to take you at face value when you claim the topic was supposed to be Bohm's "quantum potential".
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    You are finally beginning to understand the Chaotic mess this Universe presents .
    It is all the more remarkable that all these references apply equally in context of Infinite Potential

    And it begins at quantum.
    Bohm's "enfolded superposed values" in essence, emerging as "unfolded physical patterns" in reality.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    It makes no sense to keep using a word that you previously claimed is meaningless to you. It just means whatever you want it to mean, each time.

    This seems like a pointless thread, to me.

    I'm out again.
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    That was in a different context. I meant to say I have no axe to grind here.
    Pointless because you refuse to give it any thought at all.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    That's not fair, and you know it.

    I am one of the few other members of this forum who has engaged with you in this thread.

    I still stop doing that, seeing as you're so rude and ungrateful.

    You ought to be ashamed of your behaviour. You ought to apologise for your rudeness.
     
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